9
   

Is the Euro well and truly buggered?

 
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Oct, 2011 08:37 am
@cicerone imposter,
Depends on the terms - munis held by Dexia (recall, the bank in EU that just went belly up) generally had at rollover date an option to raise interest rates up to a ceiling of about 12%. Varies a lot also by state, union contracts, guarantors, collateral, municipality's ability to raise extra taxes, and also the courts.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Oct, 2011 09:17 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

All this puts a new light on the rather strange slow dance of the EU powers around the question of a Greek "rescue fund". I have long since come to the obvious conclusion that it is really a stabilization fund for French and German banks with significant exposure to Greek bonds.

Systemic risk is far more important than the Greeks. Just about every country in the West (including US) has hit its maximum debt limit, but there's a lot of other debt that's obviously never going to get paid sitting on banks books - worldwide banks, not just European. This is a list of Greece's default options:
http://av.r.ftdata.co.uk/files/2011/09/SocGen_Greekdefault.png
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Oct, 2011 10:05 am
@High Seas,
P.S. sorry forgot to translate the bureaucratese - PSI is "private sector involvement" in Brussels / IMF / ECB -speak. There's a hilarious translation of the latest IMF etc ("troika") report, issued yesterday, in today's Financial Times. Excerpt (troika original first):
Quote:
" Once the Eurogroup and the IMF’s Executive Board have approved the conclusions of the fifth review, the next tranche of EUR 8 billion (EUR 5.8 billion by the euro area Member States, and EUR 2.2 billion by the IMF) will become available, most likely, in early November."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Translation: We still can’t confirm when or actually if (do note the strategic use of commas around “most likely” – Ed.) Greece will get more cash. Maybe early next month if no one throws their toys out of the pram. Tune in next time — , same place, same failure, same old jargon covering it up!
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Oct, 2011 02:37 pm
Slovakia's parliament just voted down the proposed expansion of the EU bailout fund for Eurozone countries. It's not clear to me whether this is the final result for Slaovakia (conceivably there could be another vote later), but as I understand the EU process , if the Slovak action stands, the expansion of the EU bailout fund is off. This could be the first symptom of serious strains in the unanimity of EU nations over this issue.
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Oct, 2011 02:47 pm
@georgeob1,
Yes, every country needs to vote yes in order to implement the expansion of
the EU bailout funds. However, as the past has shown us, they vote as long as it takes to get a Yes vote.

Edit: the vote was also linked with a vote of confidence and the entire Slovak parliament is overthrown and perhaps there will be a new vote in a few days already with a new parliament.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Oct, 2011 02:48 pm
@georgeob1,
It's expected to pass on a new vote.

Quote:
Slovakia's government lost a confidence vote Tuesday called on a plan to bolster the euro zone's EFSF rescue fund, but the package was expected to go through in a later re-vote because the outgoing prime minister planned to ask for help from the opposition.

The result had been anticipated after a junior party in the coalition said it would abstain. All of the 16 other eurozone countries have already ratified the plan to give more powers to the European Financial Stability Facility.

Slovakia's main opposition party, the leftist Smer, has said it would be willing to discuss supporting the EFSF deal after the government fell. Source
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Oct, 2011 09:23 am
@CalamityJane,
The government was overthrown, the parliament stays - they'll probably OK the EFSF capital increase. Meanwhile Allianz (the insurers) and Deutsche Bank are pushing their plan to turn the EFSF into a hedge fund of sorts, insuring the first 40% of sovereign bond losses. The German finance minister told them it's a stupid plan but that doesn't seem to have scared them - they got support from (who else?) the French. Where is Bismarck when we need him?! Meanwhile Harrisburg, capital of Pennsylvania, filed for bankruptcy. More to follow in chapter 9 (municipality) bankruptcies - and forget Fannie and Freddie...
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Oct, 2011 09:51 am
@High Seas,
PS the Allianz / Deutsche Bank proposal for leveraging the EFSF starts on part 3:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/68476256/Allianz-Presentation-ML-Oct-11
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2011 03:32 pm
As others have suggested Slkovakia has approved the expanded EU bailout fund.

Meanwhile the Greek government still hasn't passed a budget for the current year and still hasn't yet reduced its current operating costs to even equal its current tax revenues. Thus, unable to issue more bonds, it relies on continued tranches from the EU to meet its inflated government payroll. Currently there is a widespread strike of government workers, and agitation surrounding pending legislation in the Parliament that would reduce or eliminate the mimimum wage - a necessary economic adaptation to their present situation.

Probably partly as a result of all this, and given their increasingly explicit references to ever larger "haircuts" for lenders, the willingness of its EU paymasters to keep propping up the Greek government appears to be virtually gone. It appears they are worried now only about their own banks and the prospect of further contaigon, and intend to save their reserves for that purpose alone.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2011 04:33 pm
@High Seas,
I wonder why under Adjusting PSI parameters, the Euro taxpayer will show no loss?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2011 04:35 pm
@georgeob1,
I think the Greek government´s expectation to increase tax revenue belongs on the luagher curve.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 09:33 am
Today's news includes reports of open disagreement between France and Germany over the EU response to the financial collapse of the Greek government. Germany wants a partial default with lenders taking 50% or so losses on their loans, while France, with far greater bank exposure to Greek bonds and concerned about their own stability, wants more direct bailouts with fuller repayment for their banks.

Most economists appear to agree that in the long term the Greek economy will be unable to repay its debts, and therefore needs a default with all it entails for itsd long-term recovery. Avoiding it, and thereby protecting the banks that bought large quantities of Greek bonds, will involve continued huge subsidies from the rest of Europe, and will saddle Greece with long-term debts it will ultimately still be unlikely to repay. The Greek government is still spending more than it takes in, still adding to its mountain of debt, and apparently still unwilling to face the reality of its situation.
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 09:46 am
@georgeob1,
I am at my wits end too here. It seems that Greece is not complying with any EU efforts to help, nor are they willing to acknowledge the seriousness of its country's financial state. The Greek are a stubborn nation and it seems that emotion is clouding their good judgement - if they ever had one.

Yes, France has far more at stake than Germany and Sarkozy is seeking reelection (that fool), however, everyone should realize that Greece is defaulting on its debt. One cannot expect a beggar to pay his mortgage after the house has been foreclosed already.

georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 10:17 am
@CalamityJane,
I've spent a fair amount of time in Greece. They are a fascinating and sometimes likeable people, but they appear (to me) to be plagued by lots of irrational insecurities. They don't really like Americans (or Germans), and, for the most part, each other. They have exaggerated sensitivities about almost everything. When we did NATO air combat exercises with them off the carriers in the Eastern Mediterranean, we always had to rig the rules so it appeared they won- otherwise they would get in a snit and go home.
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Oct, 2011 10:18 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

I wonder why under Adjusting PSI parameters, the Euro taxpayer will show no loss?

PSI is code for "banks, pension funds, other private sector holders of Greek bonds" are going to take a major hit (about 60% haircut) leaving the ECB, EU, IMF (aka the taxpayers) who also hold Greek bonds able to claim that their own Greek bonds really are worth 100% of face value and will pay interest.

Tinkerbell, tooth fairy, sprites, and whatever Halloween spirits are out there are watching this space to know how soon they can throw a party Smile
http://blogs.ft.com/the-world/2011/10/eurozone-crisis-live-blog-6/#axzz1bhyDPn2C
http://blogs.ft.com/the-world/files/2011/10/ingrampinn11-590x279.jpg
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Oct, 2011 10:24 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

...... When we did NATO air combat exercises with them off the carriers in the Eastern Mediterranean, we always had to rig the rules so it appeared they won- otherwise they would get in a snit and go home.

That's positively scary. Btw, do you know why Greeks, Turks (as well as Israelis) chose to buy quiet diesel submarines from Thyssen Norseewerke in Kiel when all 3 were offered the option of getting some US sub about to be retired? That would - presumably - have been free to them, counting as part of US aid, or at least (if a newbuilding) heavily subsidized. Btw, the Greeks in order to beautify their "mark to fantasy" national accounts kept the entire cost of their new submarine off the books on grounds it was classified - and that was after Eurostat in Brussels had warned them (in 2005) to stop including in their GDP "statistics" estimates for non-taxable "contributions to national income" made by gambling and prostitution. Greek taxation? I'll explain another day!
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Wed 26 Oct, 2011 10:50 am
@High Seas,
Thanks for that clarification. Appreciate it.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Oct, 2011 11:49 am
@High Seas,
High Seas wrote:

PSI is code for "banks, pension funds, other private sector holders of Greek bonds" are going to take a major hit (about 60% haircut) leaving the ECB, EU, IMF (aka the taxpayers) who also hold Greek bonds able to claim that their own Greek bonds really are worth 100% of face value and will pay interest.


I didn't realize that the major European Banks would continue to mark their Greek bonds at face value while private bondholders would be required to take current losses. This is an ominous indicator for the health of EU financial structure. It makes the Belgian PM's comment, reported in today's news, that an intervention fund well over one trillion Euros will be required to stabilize the system, all the more understandable.
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Oct, 2011 11:52 am
@georgeob1,
Well, not quite - only the official debt holders (ECB et al) would continue with 100%, not the actual private sector banks - but opinions on CDS triggers differ, and if CDS are indeed triggered (credit default swaps), then it's a "credit event" no matter what % hit was taken by the private sector, and the official debtholders have to get a haircut also. See legal advice - completely hilarious - by bankruptcy lawyer retained by Greece, Lee Buchheit of Cleary, Gottlieb:
Quote:
My advice, Minister, is that you:

• Disregard any debt sustainability analysis that assigns a greater than 50%
probability to the occurrence of the Second Coming of Christ before the next
bond maturity.

• While avoiding unrealistic optimism, do not careen to the other extreme of
soul-destroying despair. A request for financial assistance addressed to the
Executive Board of the IMF should not begin with the sentence, “The last
camel died at noon”. Panic is as infectious as yawning. So, however, is a sense
of composure and control.

• Once it becomes clear that the debt stock must be addressed, get on with it.
Creditors may not like the prospect of having to write off a portion of their
claims or defer repayment dates, but they positively loathe prolonged periods of
indecision and dithering. Efficiency, discipline and fairness, even in carrying out
a disagreeable task, will be remembered by markets long after the financial pain
of a sovereign debt restructuring has been forgotten.


http://www.iie.com/publications/papers/buchheit20110913.pdf
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Oct, 2011 12:21 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Got to vanish again so am posting latest update from battlefield in Brussels (just kidding) by Financial Times DC correspondent (subscription only)
Quote:


“Some of the usual confusion coming out of Europe about the International Monetary Fund ‘demanding’ a particular haircut, i.e. percentage writedown, of private sector holdings of Greek sovereign debt. Leaving aside the fact that calculations of net present value reductions are an art more than a science, what I suspect is actually going on is this.

From the outset, the IMF hasn’t specified a level of private debt writedown – it has just said that the lower the writedown, the higher the level of official finance needed to fill the gap. And since IMF resources are limited, most of the official cash will have to come from Europe. This is illustrated by the table on page 7 of the troika debt sustainability report.

Mind you, is it just me that spotted some eerily familiar numbers there? The estimate for the official finance needed under the current scenario (with limited writedown), if the Greek economy does particularly badly, is €444.1bn, or just over the headline value of the European Financial Stability Facility. Meanwhile the official financing required with a 60 per cent writedown is €109.3bn – almost exactly the same as the original estimate under the current scenario, made back in July before things got worse.

In other words, eurozone people, if you want to keep the bailout size where it is, you need a 60 per cent writedown; if you want to keep the writedown where it is, you will spend the entire EFSF (which in any case in practice probably can’t raise €440bn) on it. In this case, you literally pays your money and you takes your choice.”
 

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