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Half of European men share King Tut's DNA

 
 
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2011 12:59 am
Quote:
Half of European men share King Tut's DNA
Mon Aug 1, 2011
By Alice Baghdjian

LONDON Aug 1 (Reuters Life!) - Up to 70 percent of British men and half of all Western European men are related to the Egyptian Pharaoh Tutankhamun, geneticists in Switzerland said.

Scientists at Zurich-based DNA genealogy centre, iGENEA, reconstructed the DNA profile of the boy Pharaoh, who ascended the throne at the age of nine, his father Akhenaten and grandfather Amenhotep III, based on a film that was made for the Discovery Channel.

The results showed that King Tut belonged to a genetic profile group, known as haplogroup R1b1a2, to which more than 50 percent of all men in Western Europe belong, indicating that they share a common ancestor.

Among modern-day Egyptians this haplogroup contingent is below 1 percent, according to iGENEA.

"It was very interesting to discover that he belonged to a genetic group in Europe -- there were many possible groups in Egypt that the DNA could have belonged to," said Roman Scholz, director of the iGENEA Centre.

Around 70 percent of Spanish and 60 percent of French men also belong to the genetic group of the Pharaoh who ruled Egypt more than 3,000 years ago.

"We think the common ancestor lived in the Caucasus about 9,500 years ago," Scholz told Reuters.

It is estimated that the earliest migration of haplogroup R1b1a2 into Europe began with the spread of agriculture in 7,000 BC, according to iGENEA

However, the geneticists were not sure how Tutankhamun's paternal lineage came to Egypt from its region of origin.

The centre is now using DNA testing to search for the closest living relatives of "King Tut".

"The offer has only been publicised for three days but we have already seen a lot of interest," Scholz told Reuters. (Edited by Paul Casciato)
http://af.reuters.com/article/egyptNews/idAFL3E7J135P20110801
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raprap
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2011 06:40 am
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2011 07:14 am
@raprap,
Genghis Khan used to put it about a bit as well.
raprap
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2011 07:42 am
@izzythepush,
The male DNA is harder to trace than the female genome. Mitochondrial DNA leads us all to a single uterus about 8000 generations ago.

As for Tut or Kahn, it really has to do with the sisters and daughters--the ones that lived that is. Henry VIII had lots of wives and daughters but very few 'official' sons.

Rap
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2011 07:54 am
@raprap,
I'll have to bow to your superior scientific knowledge, but this is from National Geographic.

Quote:
February 14, 2003
Genghis Khan, the fearsome Mongolian warrior of the 13th century, may have done more than rule the largest empire in the world; according to a recently published genetic study, he may have helped populate it too.

An international group of geneticists studying Y-chromosome data have found that nearly 8 percent of the men living in the region of the former Mongol empire carry y-chromosomes that are nearly identical. That translates to 0.5 percent of the male population in the world, or roughly 16 million descendants living today.

The spread of the chromosome could be the result of natural selection, in which an extremely fit individual manages to pass on some sort of biological advantage. The authors think this scenario is unlikely. They suggest that the unique set of circumstances surrounding the establishment of the Mongol empire led to the spread.

"This is a clear example that culture plays a very big role in patterns of genetic variation and diversity in human populations," said geneticist Spencer Wells, one of the 23 co-authors of the paper. "It's the first documented case when human culture has caused a single genetic lineage to increase to such an enormous extent in just a few hundred years."

To have such a startling impact on a population required a special set of circumstances, all of which are met by Genghis Khan and his male relatives, the authors note in the study published in the American Journal of Human Genetics.

Khan's empire at the time of his death extended across Asia, from the Pacific Ocean to the Caspian Sea. His military conquests were frequently characterized by the wholesale slaughter of the vanquished. His descendants extended the empire and maintained power in the region for several hundred years, in civilizations in which harems and concubines were the norm. And the males were markedly prolific.

Khan's eldest son, Tushi, is reported to have had 40 sons. Documents written during or just after Khan's reign say that after a conquest, looting, pillaging, and rape were the spoils of war for all soldiers, but that Khan got first pick of the beautiful women. His grandson, Kubilai Khan, who established the Yuan Dynasty in China, had 22 legitimate sons, and was reported to have added 30 virgins to his harem each year.

"The historically documented events accompanying the establishment of the Mongol empire would have contributed directly to the spread of this lineage," the authors conclude.

Geneticists use the Y-chromosome in population studies such as this because it doesn't recombine as other parts of the genome do. When it comes to eye color, or height, or resistance or susceptibility to particular diseases, each parent contributes half of a child's DNA, which join together to form a new genetic combination.

The Y-chromosome is passed on as a chunk of DNA from father to son, basically unchanged through generations except for random mutations.
These random mutations, which happen naturally and are usually harmless, are called markers. Once the markers have been identified, geneticists can go back in time and trace them to the point at which they first occurred, defining a unique lineage of descent.

In this particular instance, the lineage originated 1,000 years ago. The authors aren't saying that the genetic mutations defining the lineage originated with Khan, who was born around 1162; they are more likely to have been passed on to him by a great great grandfather.

The lineage was found in only one population outside of the former Mongolian empire, in Pakistan.

"The Hazaras [of Pakistan] gave us our first clue to the connection with Genghis Khan," said Wells. "They have a long oral tradition that says they're his direct descendants."

Of course, the connection to Genghis Khan will never be a certainty unless his grave is found and his DNA could be extracted. Until then, geneticists will continue to seek out isolated populations in the hope of unraveling the mysteries of geographic origin and relatedness told by our genes.

The study looked at blood samples collected over a period of ten years from more than 40 populations living in and around the former Mongol empire.




0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2011 08:03 am
Quote:
Tushi, is reported to have had 40 sons


Interesting name for the old boy!
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2011 11:10 pm
Tushi grabber
0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2011 01:32 pm
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/r1b-history-thumb.jpg

Quote:
Back migrations
The earliest known back migration of R1b was from Asia to Africa and took place around 15,000 years ago. A group of R1b1* people moving from the Levant to Egypt, Sudan and spreading in different directions inside Africa to Rwanda, South Africa, Namibia, Angola, Congo, Gabon, Equatorial Guinea, Cameroon, Nigeria, Ivory Coast, Guinea-Bissau. The hotspot is Cameroon. R1b1* was observed at a frequency of up to 95% in some tribes of northern Cameroon (like the Kirdi), and about 15% nationwide. It is in all likelihood where the early R1b people first settled, then spread south and east along the coast.

Other back migrations occured from Europe to the Near East and Central Asia during the Antiquity and Middle Ages. R1b-S28 was found in Romania, Turkey and at the border of Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan. Some of it was surely brought by the Alpine Celts (Hallstatt/La Tène culture), known to have advanced along the Danube, and created the Galatian kingdom in central Anatolia. The rest could just as well be Roman, given that R1b-S28 is the dominant form of R1b in the Italian peninsula. Some have hypothetised that Roman legions went as far as Central Asia or China and never came back, leaving their genetic marker in isolated pockets. See also Were the Romans and the Alpine Celts close cousins ?

A small percentage of Western European R1b subclades were also found among Christian communities in Lebanon. They are most likely descendants of the crusaders.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2011 02:02 pm
A report in a (free) Swiss paper from July 29 ...
http://i56.tinypic.com/zthh1s.jpg
... didn't only say that any second Swiss male had the same (sub-) group of DNA like
the Egyptian Pharaoh Tutankhamun, but that you can easily test if you're among this group. From 149 Swis Francs onwards.

The Euro-price is shown on the company's website Twisted Evil


http://i53.tinypic.com/2199c35.jpg
Some information about this DNA-subgroup can be found at wikipedia

0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2011 06:19 am
None of this information substantiates that European men share Tut's DNA--it simply means that Tut and European men have an ancestor in common, who lived more than 5000 years before Tut did.

You've got some really fucked-up ideas about the significance of haplogroups.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2011 06:43 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

None of this information substantiates that European men share Tut's DNA--it simply means that Tut and European men have an ancestor in common, who lived more than 5000 years before Tut did.

You've got some really fucked-up ideas about the significance of haplogroups.


I've tried to avoid such a more direct response ...
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2011 06:47 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Unless you're involved medical research, I cannot see why anyone would be so concerned with eugenics
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2011 06:58 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter, Talk72000 is an outspoken, rabid racist, and in particular, an antisemite. His knowledge of European history and geography (he thinks Vikings crossed the English Channel to raid England, then said they might have crossed the North Sea)--i say his knowledge of European history and geography is even less than that of Hawkeye. That's saying a mouthful.

Talk deserves every bit of opprobrium he gets from me.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2011 07:00 am
@izzythepush,
Talk's a racist--this ****, the significance of which he clearly does not understand, faxcinates him.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2011 07:02 am
@Setanta,
I can confirm what Setanta just said about Vikings, North Sea, English Channel etc.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2011 07:47 am
@izzythepush,
Darwin loosely used the term races to refer to animals with common ancestors which had become separate species. Now, for example, horses and donkeys have a common ancestor, and they can breed--but their offspring are sterile, so they are separate species, or, in Darwin's term, separate races. The term race as applied to humans derives in the late 19th or early 20th century, and it's completely specious. (I believe the term racist only dates to the 1930s.)

In modern biology, separate species can be defined by the inability to produce offspring which are not sterile, or sexual isolation. So, for example, polar bears and brown bears (like grizzlys) have a recent common ancestor, and it appears that two of them recently mated and produced an offspring. Some son-of-a-bitch shot the boy, so we don't know if he was sterile or not. But the other criterion, even if two members of separate species could mate and produce reproductively viable offspring is sexual isolation. The holy rollers got all worked up over the polar bear-grizzly mix, trying to claim that it "disproved" evolution. But polar bears and brown bears are separate species because of sexual isolation. They don't go to the same pubs, so they don't hook up.

Now, i'm sure you're wondering what any of this has to do with this sick racist's ranting. Humans are obviously not divided into separate species because they can mate and produce reproductively viable offspring. But the more we learn about culture, language, achaeology and genetics, the more information we possess to show that sexual isolation does not apply to humans, either.

The major linguist, cultural and ethnic group in south Asia thousands and thousands of years ago were the Australasians. We might think of them as Chinese (although that would be anachronism). Well, Australasians crossed to Formosa (Taiwan), and from there to what we call the Philippine Islands. Then they colonized the Celebese, Borneo and what we think of as Indonesia. Eventually, their descendants spread out to the east and are now the Polynesians. But they spread out to the west, too. Madagascar was colonized by Australasians, probably from Java or Sumatra. The ancient cultural and linguistic evidence surprised European researchers with the evidence generations ago, and has since been confirmed genetically. I believe (i'd have to look it up) that Madagascarians (?) are about 40% the genetic descendants of Asutralasians, and the archaeological evidence is that they got to the island before African tribesmen did.

There is a tribe in southern Africa called the Lemba who claim to be descended from the lost tribes of Israel. Well, guess what? A Harvard geneticist (who happens to be a Jew), checked them out, and found that about half of Lemba men have Y-chromosomes of Jewish origin. More significantly, the Buba clan supply their priests, and they have the the Cohen modal haplotype, which means they are descended from the Kohanim, the ancient Jewish priestly caste.

There is an hypothesis called the Solutrean hypothesis which is based almost entirely upon methods of producing flint tools. In western Europe in the period of roughly 35,000 to 25,000 years ago, there was a dominant culture we call the Solutreans. They produced flint tools by a method known as pressure flake knapping, which can produce extremely thin and extremely sharp blades, such as knife blades and spear heads. A little thought will tell you that an extremely thin, extremely sharp spear head will be much more effective for piercing the hide of a prey animal with a heavy coat--this is a valuable skill. Well, the Magalenan culture which succeeded the Solutreans did not do pressure flake flint knapping--in effect they were using an earlier, clumsier method.

The only other occurance of pressure flake knapping showing this high degree of skill at any time more than 10,000 years ago are the Clovis points (named for the site of the first find near Clovis, New Mexico) of the early Amerindians. Now personally, i don't believe in inventive isolation--it's possible that an idea can occur in several places at several times. But pressure flake knapping is an example so unique--found only among the Solutreans and the Clovis culture tribes--as to suggest that this was a subtle innovation which just didn't occur to very many flint knappers at all.

So, the Solutrean hypothesis has it that people of the Solutrean culture made it to North America about 20,000 or 25,000 years ago (which would make them the original tenants), and that Clovis flint knapping technology derives from that. It's a fringe hypothesis, not accepted by most scholars in the field. However, some disturbing discoveries cut into their arguments that Clovis culture independently devised the method. Clovis points have a distinctive diagonal pattern in the pressure flaking not seen in the Solutrean points, which was considered a strong argument against the Solutrean hyposthesis. However, in recent years, pressure flake points have been turned up in the eastern United States, and they don't have the distinctive diagonal pattern of Clovis poinst, and they're older than the Clovis find. The people who have dug up them have been ostracized--academics who have a career stake in a certain world view don't appreciate being contradicted.

But more telling is the work of a Canadian geneticist who has shown that in both North and South Ameicans, on average, 3% of Amerindians have ancient European MtDNA (the DNA of the mitochondria)--ancient as in they didn't get it from European after 1492, its MtDNA from tens of thousands of years ago. A more damatic piece of the puzzle, though, is that the incidence of ancient European MtDNA in Amerindians in eastern Canada rises to 25%. That cuts into the dismissal of academics who say it came through Siberia (even though modern Siberian tribesmen don't have it).

Now, of course, this doesn't prove the Solutrean hypothesis, but it sure does upset a lot of academic apple carts.

*******************************************

So, humans are not separate species by the test of reproductive viability, and recent genetic evidence dismisses any claims anyone would care to make about sexual isolation. Simply put, there is one, and only one, human race.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2011 08:16 am
By the way, the author of this thread, Pamela Rosa, is probably the most rabid racist this site has ever seen. She's a South African white supremecist, and you can't really say anything too nasty about her.

Mitochondrial Eve must really burn her ass. Not only are we all descended from a single woman who lived about 200,000 years ago, but she was an African. I feel pretty certain she wasn't a white African of Dutch descent.
Pamela Rosa
 
  0  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2011 04:27 pm
@Setanta,
In this thread I posted some scientific facts, and you responded with another personal attack against me.

Setanta wrote:
Mitochondrial Eve must really burn her ass. Not only are we all descended from a single woman who lived about 200,000 years ago, but she was an African.

Not at all.
Most mammals have light skin, and most probably Mitochondrial Eve had a light skin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y34OqHDwaTc

Africa wasn't negroid until historic times
http://racialreality.blogspot.com/2005/01/africa-wasnt-negroid-until-historic.html
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2011 04:30 pm
@Pamela Rosa,
You're as full of **** as a Christmas goose . . . a vile racist of your stripe can't be insulted too often . . .
Pamela Rosa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2011 04:34 pm
@Setanta,
You're raving like a lunatic again.
Seek professional help.
0 Replies
 
 

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