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Food Ethics 2 (or is it 3?).... Trying yet again

 
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2011 11:57 am
@Robert Gentel,
The thing is in evaluating correctly who is living in Star Trek enterprise after all...considering where Quantum Physics as lead us so far I would say the common folk are completely immersed in bullshit...
(besides, Star Trek rules ! Wink )
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2011 12:28 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Who said I an angry about it ???
Who said people should n´t do what they believe is right to do ?
That actually is the very best reason for people either eating meat or vegetables...
...the problem is the self righteous group often comes from the "vegies" alike, although of course not always...

Have a nice day Chai2 ! Wink


You certainly sound angry when you say, as I quoted before...


The ethics of eating animals has many million years of justification behind it...
...you people speak of ethics has if it were an alien from another universe...is just annoying pretentious...bullshit that is !

and

the problem is the self righteous group often comes from the "vegies" alike, although of course not always



Justification of ethics?
Talking of someone raising a hyopthetical question as "annoying pretentious bullshit?"
Self righteous groups?

That sounds like anger to me.



Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2011 12:33 pm
@chai2,
Well that is a straw man on what I said !
I might be angry that often people are not truly engaged in debating openly on the matter, but I am not certainly angry about people being vegetarian...

I am not imposing to anyone what they should eat.
I am debating the reason they do so and the arguments they present to do so...
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2011 12:45 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
I don't do debates.

Don't see the sense in them. Never changes anyone's mind, and is just an outlet for people who can't just say something straight out, and leave it be.

That said, I guess we don't have any reason to converse anymore.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2011 01:13 pm
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:

I don't do debates.

Don't see the sense in them. Never changes anyone's mind, and is just an outlet for people who can't just say something straight out, and leave it be.

That said, I guess we don't have any reason to converse anymore.


But just what is it that I did n´t said straight out ?
I think I meant and sustain everything I said before, although of course I can respect that you feel different about it...
...now secondly, if you don´t like debates what possible motivation brings you about on this regard ? I don´t see any reason for you to show up in a philosophy forum...

...so yes I agree with you we have nothing else to debate or to converse about I don´t deal with solipsists...
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2011 01:22 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

The ethics of eating animals has many million years of justification behind it...
...you people speak of ethics has if it were an alien from another universe...is just annoying pretentious...bullshit that is !




And you display a complete lack of understanding of we people.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2011 01:23 pm
We, the People, in order to grow a more perfect onion . . .
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Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2011 01:53 pm
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2011 02:03 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

I don´t deal with solipsists...


Even if they don't have a string of poloponies?
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2011 02:04 pm
@chai2,
That was for you Set.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2011 02:11 pm
@chai2,
Are those edible?

(sorry, I've just been reading along and trying to be quiet)
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2011 04:55 pm
oooff....

I just came across one of those sanctimonious snots.

Someone who gives thinking ethically about whether or not to eat meat a bad rep.

I'm at the regular supermarket, not planning on buying a lot (Wally having $1600 worth of dental work this month, ouch), but that of course doesn't stop me from looking around.
I was looking at some of the Amy's brand foods, trying to remember what I had for lunches this week, when I notice this guy, maybe 25-27, look over at the selection and make this face that said "wow, that's expenseive." I dunno, it's the same price as anywhere else, and no more than other stuff. I don't need anything, so I move on.
I come around to another frozen aisle, where they have the morningstar farm (I don't like that stuff) and was wondering if I wanted to spend $5 plus on this "chicken" cutlet (Quorn brand) with guyere cheese and cranberries, which I know tastes really good, but like for once in a while (I didn't BTW, remembering the $1600 credit card charge coming up).

So I see the same guy, now standing right next to me, looking at the morning star farms stuff. Picking something up, putting it back.
Now I'm always talking to people at the market, and thet talk to me. It just happens.
From my glance at him, he looked undecided, so I said in a friendly way "This stuff here is really good. Have you ever tried it?"

Holy Christ.

He looks over at me and gets this disgusted look on his face, and says, and this is pretty much to the word..."It seems that for the last 5 years all of a sudden EVERYone's a vegetarian. I was RAISED a vegetarian and everyone suggests different foods and I NEVER like them. All of a sudden it's just POPular to call yourself a vegetarian."

I looked at him a moment to see if he was going to continue, then I said.
I didn't realize that only vegetarians were allowed to buy these products. I was just being friendly and saying this stuff tastes good.....BUT, as long as you brought it up, thanks for letting me know you're a lifelong vegetarian, as if that means anything. How do YOU know I haven't been one for 52 years?
For whatever reason, you felt like you had to announce it."

Then I looked at his cart and said "By the way, your tortilla's have pig lard in them" and I walked away.



You know why this guy thinks that's it's only been in the past 5 years that everyone wants to be a vegetarian?
Because he's only been buying his own food for that long, and it hasn't been just appearing in his mothers cupboards and refrigerator.

I'm guessing, because I've know a number of people like this, that within 3 minutes of meeting them, they have to tell you they don't eat meat, and if you are going to eat a meal with them, especially at a restaurant, they have to let everyone know they're getting the pesto because they don't eat meat. Oh, I thought it was because you like pesto.

Little prick.
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2011 05:57 pm
@chai2,
Ha! I can really relate to this, but I'm going out for dinner now (new THAI place opened up down the street and I may even have MEAT, ie, chicken) but I hope to be back later to really get into the meat of this conversation.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2011 06:00 pm
My boss is a vegetarian. We coexist just fine.
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bigstew
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Aug, 2011 08:11 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Quote:
"You are brought before a race of hyperintelligent extraterrestrials and charged with the task of presenting a single argument of why they do not have the right to eat us. What do you say?"



(1) If pain is bad, important, real, and irreducible, then pain has intrinsic dis value
(2) Pain is important, real, and irreducible
(3)If pain has intrinsic dis value, then any rational being who understands the importance of pain should also understand such dis valus is a reason not to cause unnecessary pain in others
(4) the Aliens are hyper intelligent, rational beings
(5) Follows that these Aliens should be well aware (probably more so than we are) that eating us is going to cause significant pain.

As far as (2) goes, I think it is safe to say we all know that pain is bad. We know that the hurt pain causes is bad for us, and as such it is also bad for others. People don't describe pain as "something great". If they do, they don't know the proper meaning of the word "pain". We also know that pain is important, that it is something to be avoided in and of itself. We don't treat someone with a severe acid burn for other reasons like cosmetic appeal-we do it because the pain itself deserves alleviation. It is an end in itself. In addittion, the disvalue of pain is no different than any other non reducible mental state. Pain feels bad and that's that. In other words, we don't describe the badness of pain in non moral terms: to know why pain is bad you have to experience it. Lastly, pain is real because we experience it.

I'm sure some of you still might assume that if the Aliens could wipe us out instantly, causing no pain, then what they do with us shouldn't be an issue. Fair enough. That would be quite the practical feat. Other arguments concerning the nature of justice would have to come into play.
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