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Food Ethics 2 (or is it 3?).... Trying yet again

 
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Jul, 2011 09:52 am
@joefromchicago,
I had read that to suggest that kosher-keeping aliens wouldn't want to eat meat that contained milk. A sort of twist on the traditional milk/meat in the same meal prohibition.
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Reply Tue 26 Jul, 2011 10:02 am
@ehBeth,
God, in Leviticus, chap. 11, v. 1-8, wrote:
1 And the LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them,

2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These [are] the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that [are] on the earth.

3 Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, [and] cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat.

4 Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: [as] the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he [is] unclean unto you.

5 And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he [is] unclean unto you.

6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he [is] unclean unto you.

7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he [is] unclean to you.

8 Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they [are] unclean to you.

People don't chew cud or have cloven hooves. They are, therefore, not kosher, regardless of their dairy intake.
dlowan
 
  2  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 11:51 pm
@joefromchicago,
I think it vanishingly unlikely that super-human aliens adhere to quirky food rules made up thousands of years ago by an obscure bunch of people.

Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 07:08 am
@dlowan,
You've got a better idea? In Craven's scenario, the best I can do is hope they're god's rules, not the obscure bunch of people's rules, and that god's rules are universal.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 07:27 am
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:
They are, therefore, not kosher, regardless of their dairy intake.


apparently you didn't understand the tsar's humour
joefromchicago
 
  4  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 08:19 am
@dlowan,
dlowan wrote:

I think it vanishingly unlikely that super-human aliens adhere to quirky food rules made up thousands of years ago by an obscure bunch of people.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that a race of highly intelligent aliens will be Jewish.
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 08:19 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

joefromchicago wrote:
They are, therefore, not kosher, regardless of their dairy intake.


apparently you didn't understand the tsar's humour

Humor?
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 09:58 am
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

dlowan wrote:

I think it vanishingly unlikely that super-human aliens adhere to quirky food rules made up thousands of years ago by an obscure bunch of people.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that a race of highly intelligent aliens will be Jewish.


I feel there are those amongst you not treating Robert's scenario with the utmost seriousness.
joefromchicago
 
  3  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 10:16 am
@dlowan,
On the contrary. As I mentioned previously, I think that, when confronted with an alien who wants to know why he shouldn't eat you, there are really only two good responses: (1) it's against your religion; or (2) it's disgusting. Those who suggest the proper response would be "I'm more useful to you alive than dead" are simply putting off their eventual demise until a later date, when they presumably won't be so useful. That's also the dilemma for those who think the aliens would be swayed by consequentialist arguments. In contrast, god doesn't change her mind very often, and disgust is something that changes even less. If I could, therefore, convince the alien that it was against his religion to eat me or that eating me would be disgusting, then I'd feel confident that, if he later invited me to dinner, I'd probably be a guest rather than the main course.
Rockhead
 
  2  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 10:19 am
@joefromchicago,
I'm very stringy and tough.

and I'm sick...

quite certain I taste yucky.
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 11:17 am
@dlowan,
dlowan wrote:

joefromchicago wrote:

dlowan wrote:

I think it vanishingly unlikely that super-human aliens adhere to quirky food rules made up thousands of years ago by an obscure bunch of people.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that a race of highly intelligent aliens will be Jewish.


I feel there are those amongst you not treating Robert's scenario with the utmost seriousness.

And???

This kind of intellectual masturbation is only good for those people living on the Star Trek USS Enterprise (NCC-1701-D).

Though I suppose it might be good practice to argue this hypothetical question here just in case it actually happens out there after one has been abducted by this hypothetical alien race turned real.

So until we have true to life food replicators that create any kind of food without actually having to involve killing actual animals, this will remain one of those how many angels can dance on a head of a pin type questions.

And until then I can't afford to live a deeply devoted vegetarian life. And I refuse to go vegan even if I could afford the vegetarian lifestyle.
chai2
 
  3  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 11:52 am
@tsarstepan,
tsarstepan wrote:

And until then I can't afford to live a deeply devoted vegetarian life. And I refuse to go vegan even if I could afford the vegetarian lifestyle.


Afford the vegetarian lifestyle?

Rice, beans, vegetable and fruits that are in season, or frozen?
Bread, pasta eggs, milk (of some sort) quinoa?

So far today (and this includes the sustainable sardines I eat) I've had

Sardines with sauteed tomatoes (from my garden) and onions - breakfast.
Some left over black bean soup that I used as a dip for some corn torilla chips - lunch.

Later for a snack I'll have a peach or 2, and a plum. They are in season @ less than a dollar a pound.

Besides the fish, which is a brand I like to splurge on, but could very well pay a buck or something for cheap ones, I've spent a total of probably $2 for breakfast, lunch and a large afternoon snack.

For that, I've gotten at least 4 servings of fruit and vegetables, more than enough protein, and good oil.



tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 01:36 pm
@chai2,
I might have been hasty with my reply chai. You make a good point with the rice and beans, etc.... But let me backtrack a little by admitting a difficulty in giving up on hamburgers.

And no. Veggie burgers can be quite nice on occasion, they're not a complete substitute for a burger craving.

I guess I wouldn't be able to defend myself against an alien who truly has a hankering for humanburger with a couple slices of pepper jack cheese.
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 01:39 pm
@chai2,
I agree. Meatless diets tend to be cheaper than carnivorous ones. That's why poor nations consume a smarter share of their calories in meat.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 02:03 pm
@tsarstepan,
tsarstepan wrote:

But let me backtrack a little by admitting a difficulty in giving up on hamburgers.

And no. Veggie burgers can be quite nice on occasion, they're not a complete substitute for a burger craving.


I totally agree. In fact, I don't often buy things like veggie burgers. It feels like, "who am I kidding?"

On the other hand, remember how when you were a kid (or now) and you want something sweet, and your mother (or someone) said to you. "Have a piece of fruit"

Oh...screw...that.
No way is a bowl of grapes going to make me feel like I've had some New York Cheesecake.

I tried that stuff, what's it called, seitan that's supposed to give you the mouth feel of meat....uh, not so much.
For me, a waste of time.

For me personally, I realize when I'm in the mood for something savory, I'm not going to jerk myself around eating imitation something.

Sitting here right now, if I wanted something that was going to give that tummy satisfaction of a big hamburger, I think I would take something like an avocado, a heavy, fatty fruit. I'm make a huge heavy sandwich with that, using mayo, tomato, sauteed onions, mushrooms and peppers, on a really great bun. Nice and gooshy.

Afterwards I'd pat my stomach, feeling comfy and full.


0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  2  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 04:29 pm
@tsarstepan,
But the question is less about putative superhuman aliens and more about attempting to discuss the ethics of eating animals in a logical manner....




Edit....oh, you knew that.

Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2011 10:06 am
@dlowan,
The ethics of eating animals has many million years of justification behind it...
...you people speak of ethics has if it were an alien from another universe...is just annoying pretentious...bullshit that is !
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2011 11:40 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

The ethics of eating animals has many million years of justification behind it...
...you people speak of ethics has if it were an alien from another universe...is just annoying pretentious...bullshit that is !



I don't understand your anger here.
Has anyone told you on this thread that you can't eat meat if you want to?

Some people choose to eat meat, some choose not to, some are at some point in between, making specific choices for themselves.

Why are you assuming anyone is saying you should change your ways?

Go out and eat 5 porterhouse steaks, if that's what you want, and enjoy every bite.

For me, eating anything with no consideration as to it's source doesn't feel right, For Me.
When I think of the source of some foods, I choose to eat it seldom, or not at all.

If we ate a meal together, I wouldn't look all gaggy and insulting at your food, and I'd hope you wouldn't look at mine that way.



Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2011 11:46 am
@chai2,
Who said I an angry about it ???
Who said people should n´t do what they believe is right to do ?
That actually is the very best reason for people either eating meat or vegetables...
...the problem is the self righteous group often comes from the "vegies" alike, although of course not always...

Have a nice day Chai2 ! Wink
Robert Gentel
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2011 11:50 am
@tsarstepan,
tsarstepan wrote:
This kind of intellectual masturbation is only good for those people living on the Star Trek USS Enterprise (NCC-1701-D).


That may be the case but I still wonder why then these threads aren't left to such geeks who want to split hairs over abstract ethical arguments.
 

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