SOMETHING WORTH DOING IN SPACE

Here's the parting of the ways. Colonization only makes sense when there is a threat to our planet or our star. Otherwise, it's a pipe dream that colonization would benefit us. There's six billion plus people on this planet. It would be absurd to suggest we could get a billion people off the planet and safely, but even if we could, one billion is considerably less than 20% of the population.

We've had Fermi paradox discussions here and i came to the conclusion long ago that its premises are naive and unrealistic.

Definitely, and i think it's the fastest way to get capital interested.

And yet, it's totally cool.

I'm throwing logic out of the window on this one Set. This is purely a personal pipe dream.

Well, pass the g--damned pipe, then, Bogart . . .

Teapot

Whomever starts up the first asteroid mining corporation just might become the first trillionaire.

So what are we waiting for?

Our respective ships to come in . . .

we dont know whether secondary emplacements or hydro enrichment of strategic elements has occured on MArs. Everything weve see so far is base oxides and acid liquid salts. Nothing worth sending bazzillions of dollars of equipment up there just yet.
HOWEVER, when 3rd generation fusion reactors are fesible and ,arketeable, we could use lots of supplemental 3He. According to Sandia, the amounts needed for the entire planets energy needs , based upon 2020 projections would be about 100 T /yr. So far, we know the moon is a vast repository and maybe, MArs is also.

Cerain rare earths in the ALnthanides , are getting more and more desirable and, even though Smarium is more abundant than some metals (like tin), its in a slicate sand mix and requires beneficiation from mixes as low as 3 ppm.
Maybe some planets have a source more easily gotten.
China US, and Brazil are biggest reserves and China is the biggest mining entityy. I believe China will beat us back out into space for such mining and extraction bases.

Asteroids may have crystals with several rare earth lattice concentrations. We all mine about 700 tons per year and most all of it goes into filters and, more importantly, really strong magnets that are mush more resistant to demagnetization than neodymium ones

And US and European corporations will fail to make the first step because their too stupid... I mean cowardly... risk adverse... whatever.

I believe you're right Farmerman about the Chinese or perhaps India will try their hand in the space race.

I'm actually surprised that the Indians have not moved more vigorously into aero-space industries. The Indians have a long tradition of pursuing higher education, and for some reason, the Indians produce a very high proportion of mathmatical geniuses. It seems to me that things are stacked in their favor for exploiting the aero-space industry. Even something as simple as labor works in their favor--they have a very large pool of well-educated people to work in such an industry.

One thing which is needed in developing an internal space program is physical connections between the major production, test, launch, and recovery sites. India has a poor infrastructure and China , while still relatively primitive in major highqway structure, has come really far since 2000. They have built and are paving at least 10 NS and EW trunks (although several major connections are still cobble). Imagine US 70 being paved with compressed stone every 50 miles.
India has terrible connections for truck and air. India has some really nifty IRBM and shorter range missiles that would be usable for launching small packages and they have reportedly got a long range capability (They guide on their needs to address Pakistan and China "problems"). So they probably have capability in targeting and tracking as well as robotics. I think they just dont have a bigass launch vehicle like US or Russia.

THey tested a M ultiple warhead short range missile just last week. They can \pepper Pakistan in several places with independent targeted small missile payloads, and I think that has occupied them especially since Mumbai the other attacks in KAshmir.

To get practice at putting people into space so that we can put a lot of people into space eventually. When I taught my wife to drive, at first we spent a few minutes driving around our condo's parking lot. There was little to be gained by this, but it helped her develop the skills necessary to later drive to the supermarket.

There is much we can do in the asteroid belt, but we need to get going on manned spaceflight too.

At this point in time, probably my greatest hope is VASIMR.

Yeah, both India and China suffer from the lack of a long-established heavy industial infrastructure. When the U.S. and the Soviet Union began their missile and then their space programs, they both had many years experience in heavy industrial manufacture and had heavy industrial infrastructure as a result of the second world war. Both China and India lack this. China probably has the wherewithal to create it, although areo-space has grown out of military manufacture in which they are still primitive. India is even farther behind, but they should have the "wet-ware" for it--the people they'd need.

The problem you face with something like a Mars mission is the enormous expense and a justification for such an expense. You're also not going to get corporate funding for something with no payoff in view in the near term. Going to the asteroid belt with bots is going to be much cheaper, and could quickly generate corporate interest.

On a moral note, I think India should do something about the shocking levels of poverty in their own country before they think about going to Mars. India is a major recipient of UK aid, but they've got a space programme. It doesn't seem right to me.

That's exactly the kind of argument that torpedoes space programs everywhere. How can you galivant around in space when there are such crying needs here on this planet? It's an unanswerable argument.

Yes, but whilst there is poverty everywhere, the levels of poverty in America when Kennedy announced the intention to go to the moon are as nothing compared to what's going on in India today. At the time I don't think America received aid money from the UK, as India does.

No, we haven't gotten any foreign aid from England since at least 1775 (if it's even appropriate to claim that we ever got anything worthwhile from them). I'm not disagreeing with your point--and in fact, i'm saying it's an unanswerable point.

While the govt placed a lot of money into space, it was all spent on land .Thats what happened in the US. An Indian space program doesnt shoot rupees into the cosmos you know. I dont like the following statement but in the case of many developing countries " A rising tide raises all boats" So an Indian space program would have all sorts of financial conomic benefits on this planet even before any cosmic resources are brought home.