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Are atheists being more illogical than agnostics?

 
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Sun 22 Aug, 2021 01:31 pm
@Leadfoot,
I'm not using emotion when I mention dead children but the unalterable fact that the religious somehow think it's okay because y'know Heaven. Somebody trying to wrench my emotions by bringing in my mother does it because they have nothing to offer by way of argument. Sorry if you don't see the difference. A god does not ignore your emotions? I would like to know how it acknowledges those emotions.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Sun 22 Aug, 2021 02:34 pm
@edgarblythe,
I could tell you stories but to know how God interacts with us, That requires first hand experience.

I didn't bring up 'mothers' but you must have been much closer to yours than I was to mine. Most AS kids were not. What little i remember of my upbringing could be described as 'benign neglect'. In retrospect, it was the best possible scenario for me.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Sun 22 Aug, 2021 02:37 pm
@Leadfoot,
I didn't actually write here about my mother, but what others said about her. I was feral, in that after breakfast I was turned out and only brought back in for meals and bedtime.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Sun 22 Aug, 2021 02:42 pm
@edgarblythe,
Me too. Do you regret it or glad (now) for it? Feral has the advantage of leaving you completely alone to understand this experience rather than accepting the preconceived notions of others.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Sun 22 Aug, 2021 02:59 pm
@Leadfoot,
It helped me be independent in my thinking, but I regretted not having warmth or sympathy at times. Having Asperger's left me with lots of boredom from having no friends aside from one brother.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Sun 22 Aug, 2021 03:37 pm
“I am an atheist, out and out. It took me a long time to say it. I've been an atheist for years and years, but somehow I felt it was intellectually unrespectable to say one was an atheist, because it assumed knowledge that one didn't have. Somehow, it was better to say one was a humanist or an agnostic. I finally decided that I'm a creature of emotion as well as of reason. Emotionally, I am an atheist. I don't have the evidence to prove that God doesn't exist, but I so strongly suspect he doesn't that I don't want to waste my time.”
― Isaac Asimov
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Sun 22 Aug, 2021 04:06 pm
@edgarblythe,
Yes, it does have its downsides.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Sun 22 Aug, 2021 04:12 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
. I finally decided that I'm a creature of emotion as well as of reason. Emotionally, I am an atheist.
- Isaac Asimov

How i wish i could ask him what he meant by that.
Do you have any clues?
Glennn
 
  -1  
Sun 22 Aug, 2021 04:31 pm
@Leadfoot,
I'm reading it, too. Sounds like he may be attributing his atheism to something akin to a gut feeling or knowing, but that intellectually he can't follow his gut because reality demands explanation.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Sun 22 Aug, 2021 04:39 pm
@Glennn,
Yes. Intellectually, Asimov is like Frank and I. We don't have any idea whether God exists or not.

But Asimov feels (without actually knowing) that there is no God.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Sun 22 Aug, 2021 04:54 pm
Two good possibilities there, but as i think about the man, i think maybe he was transfixed by how beautiful the harmony between the complexities of both Science and Nature. And the actual Joy at understanding such things makes some people feel they could forgo the questionable returns of theism. Therefore - atheist.
Glennn
 
  0  
Sun 22 Aug, 2021 05:08 pm
@oralloy,
My position has always been that matter originated from consciousness, and not the other way around. It seems obvious that something beyond sight is going on.

I think the problem is that people use their own experience as the standard against which to judge the reality of another's experience. In that way, a meeting of the minds isn't likely to result in agreement beyond general tenets.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Sun 22 Aug, 2021 05:25 pm
@Leadfoot,
I believe he meant he can't prove a negative but his feelings tell him atheism is the correct choice.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Sun 22 Aug, 2021 05:45 pm
@Leadfoot,
Off topic, but of interest to anyone who likes Isaac Asimov:

We're about a month away from the launch of the Foundation TV series on Apple TV Plus.

Links to trailers for the coming series:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgbPSA94Rqg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvOAA1U0li8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4QYV5GTz7c
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Sun 22 Aug, 2021 06:35 pm
I mean, why would a god pick one special planet out of all of this, which only represents a small portion of what's out there?
https://scontent.fhou1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/238594639_233642818665425_3291653526291858892_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=VN8SN3z3npUAX96-xMt&_nc_ht=scontent.fhou1-2.fna&oh=64d1c6e4b47dc0e3561142fe9e0ed5db&oe=6127BAE4
The yellow structure is the Laniakea supercluster, which contains about 100,000 galaxies. The red dot in the image is the Milky Way, "our home," which contains about 300 billion stars, including our Sun.
oralloy
 
  0  
Sun 22 Aug, 2021 07:05 pm
@edgarblythe,
If there is intelligent life throughout the universe, and if there is a God, I would presume that God cares about other intelligent beings just as much as he cares about humans.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Sun 22 Aug, 2021 07:22 pm
@oralloy,
You might be surprised how many think the Earth was singled out from all other planets.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Sun 22 Aug, 2021 08:36 pm
@edgarblythe,
I grew up reading lots of science fiction and fantasy novels, so the concept of non-human intelligent life (or even non-living intelligence) comes naturally to me.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Sun 22 Aug, 2021 08:58 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
I mean, why would a god pick one special planet out of all of this, which only represents a small portion of what's out there?

Maybe to prove a point? You, on this insignificant corner of the universe, are of more significance to me than all the stars in heaven.

Good night gentlemen (and ladies if you're out there) , i have enjoyed it immensely.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Sun 22 Aug, 2021 09:16 pm
@Leadfoot,
I can't believe that a benevolent God would value any sentient life more than any other sentient life.

Although I can believe that a benevolent God would value all sentient life.

And presuming that God has infinite ability, I don't see how infinite life throughout an infinite universe is any barrier to caring about all intelligent life everywhere.
 

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