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Is Democracy really the best government?

 
 
Reply Tue 10 May, 2011 06:09 pm
well, is it?
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Fido
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 May, 2011 07:37 pm
@hamilton,
hamilton wrote:

well, is it?
It is the only form of government... All others, including majority rule is rule of one class by another... Consider what makes government government... It is not the rule of people, but the rule by people of that which would govern them if not governed by them, like nature and industry, for examples.... Some tasks are larger than individuals can handle... Some issues affect all the people, or are likely to affect all the people... What does not affect many is not an affair of government... People should be left to themselves and their own business, and what affects you or anyone is your business or theirs... The problem that always limits democracy and invites tyranny is that people cannot control themselves... If there were no criminals there would be no need for cops, but cops are not the solution to a lack of self control among a population... What made democracy universal among primitve peoples was the fact that their nature, surrounded by enemies, threatened by nature with destruction, they were required to be self possessed, inside or outside of their communities...

Our perception of freedom as individualism run rampant until law threatens all would not have been possible in the age of democracy... A people without self control is incapable of liberty, and they must suffer indignity and slavery until they are driven into a state of desparation... When they are willing to stand as one against the tyranny of the individual, and the tyranny of class, then they are ready for democracy..
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 05:59 am
@Fido,
but the class that rules in a democracy is the class that has the least access to education- the lower class (nothing against them). is letting the weakest intelectuals govern us the best way to go?
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 08:16 am
@hamilton,
hamilton wrote:

but the class that rules in a democracy is the class that has the least access to education- the lower class (nothing against them). is letting the weakest intelectuals govern us the best way to go?
I am certain you are missing the point some where... Democracy is control over your own affairs and your own future... Before a change should have the votes of all it should affect all and then, consensus should be the rule, that what all accept should be done, and what all benefit from all should pay for... In the matter of intelligence I should ask: How smart does a person have to be to know what is best for them long or short term, and even if a person makes a mistake, and finds they were convinced to act against their own best interest, so long as the right is theirs and the power is theirs, then why can they not reverse themselves... An idiot can follow a two track into a flood, but as long as he has reverse he can back right out even when there is no room to turn...

It is not the stupid we need fear for their power to hurt us is minimal... It is the intelligent raised to levels of power over us who need be feared, and more than ever in history, it is very few who control very many, and we are denied control over our own affairs... To elect people to positions where they can hide behind our rights rather than defend them, where they can be corrupted alltogether or a part at a time, and where we have no essential control over their behavior short of unelecting them, and electing some one other to be in turned corrupted is insanity... It is the repetition of behavior that resulted in past failure...If we have democracy, which is power over our own affairs and a veto on injury by others, then we would not be in the condition we are in, of having to assert, and defend every right of the people while the rulers maintain the privilages of the rich...
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 04:16 pm
@Fido,
Fido wrote:

hamilton wrote:

but the class that rules in a democracy is the class that has the least access to education- the lower class (nothing against them). is letting the weakest intelectuals govern us the best way to go?
I am certain you are missing the point some where... Democracy is control over your own affairs and your own future...

wrong. thats strangers and stupid people deciding our affairs for us.
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 04:20 pm
@hamilton,
two great quotes from Winston Churchill

The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.

hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 04:23 pm
@djjd62,
ive heard those before... so really, democracy is a bludgeoning of the people by the people
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 04:24 pm
@hamilton,
i think it's more a case of, "you can't please all the people all the time"
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 04:26 pm
@djjd62,
djjd62 wrote:

two great quotes from Winston Churchill

The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.



if it were the average voter, then that voter would be happy...
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2011 06:43 am
@hamilton,
hamilton wrote:

Fido wrote:

hamilton wrote:

but the class that rules in a democracy is the class that has the least access to education- the lower class (nothing against them). is letting the weakest intelectuals govern us the best way to go?
I am certain you are missing the point some where... Democracy is control over your own affairs and your own future...

wrong. thats strangers and stupid people deciding our affairs for us.
You are wrong... You are talking about majority rule... When everyone is concerned for their self interest and has no good reason to abandon that self interest it is certain that the self interest of the entire country will be served... Majority rule empowers demogogues, and money, and those people and forms will not result in even the majority being served... Countries can be desstroyed by halves... No matter how many are denied their rights or even their votes, it is certain there will always be a larger half to those who remain... Majority rule is expeditious... There may be a time and a place for it, but to have it always is the path to ruin... What made the Iroquois a powerhouse in their day, is that their confederacy listened to every voice and when it voted settled for nothing less than consensus.... When government reaches the point that it must act quickly or perish it is out of its own trail of failures... Otherwise, it should be the job of government to look into the future, and to react to impediments as they appear, or to avoid the consequences looming that were in the past unforseen... Government is no place for religion, or talk of fate, or of magic... Only reason and the best interest of the people, all the people should concern government... Consider; that defense against the foolish, against the thieves and greed, and against enemies abroad is the proper role of government... To do anything in particular for anyone is no part of government, but it should help to organize all to do for their own benefit... For people in Florida to pay taxes to help people in Alaska who might well help themselves is crazy... Self interest is the key to self government, and each is as able as the next to see that for themselves, and those who are too stupid should have some protection, but the best general protection for all is self government, Democracy...
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2011 06:56 am
@djjd62,
djjd62 wrote:

i think it's more a case of, "you can't please all the people all the time"
That is not the job of government... Everyone can rub their own thing out... It is the job of self government to defend rights from enemies local, national, and international; and apart from that to help organize people to do for themselves what they want for themselves... Because of the power of the Senate, some states are bled while others are fed... People should have defense against parasites... Some issues are national, and will remain so... Parties today tend to make national issues out of local issues while ignoring many issues in between where they could help... If people understand that nothing is free, and that no one is going to run over the top of anyone's rights without objection the are ready for self government...

Consider a moral question... If everyone who likes the death penalty had to pay for the cost of defending the rights of the defendent which are all our rights as well, and then paying for the execution and burial, then you would find the death penalty did not have enough support to be continued... It can only be done now over the objection of those with morality as a cause because they must not only object to it, but pay for it with their taxes regardless... There are a lot ot things that would not be done if reason ruled us, and if those who benefitted were forced to pay for the benefit they now recieve free of charge...
0 Replies
 
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2011 08:28 am
@Fido,
Fido wrote:

hamilton wrote:

Fido wrote:

hamilton wrote:

but the class that rules in a democracy is the class that has the least access to education- the lower class (nothing against them). is letting the weakest intelectuals govern us the best way to go?
I am certain you are missing the point some where... Democracy is control over your own affairs and your own future...

wrong. thats strangers and stupid people deciding our affairs for us.
You are wrong... You are talking about majority rule...

look to your right. look to your left. do you want those people deciding what you do? honestly, everyone has their own opinion. some arent smarter, some are just stupider. do you want everyone (strangers included) deciding what you do?
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2011 01:05 pm
@hamilton,
hamilton wrote:

Fido wrote:

hamilton wrote:

Fido wrote:

hamilton wrote:

but the class that rules in a democracy is the class that has the least access to education- the lower class (nothing against them). is letting the weakest intelectuals govern us the best way to go?
I am certain you are missing the point some where... Democracy is control over your own affairs and your own future...

wrong. thats strangers and stupid people deciding our affairs for us.
You are wrong... You are talking about majority rule...

look to your right. look to your left. do you want those people deciding what you do? honestly, everyone has their own opinion. some arent smarter, some are just stupider. do you want everyone (strangers included) deciding what you do?
I want all those people to be free to do as they wish so long as they injure no one, and have the power to defend themselves against injustice... The object of democracy is defense... Period... The reason we have majority rule is so the minority can be left without defense against injustice... Why must we be in a continual defense or assertion of rights??? It is because the democracy as we have it, non democracy, majority rule can be so easily turned against the population with a simple majority vote... Consensus is the key to democracy... Everyone should have a veto, or at least a reson to go along with any change in the situation that is likely to affect him or her... Too much is run over the top of sizable groups in this country because they have no defense, and too often those who are steering change over the objections of great numbers are small minorities having only the power of money to address to government... The bottom line is, that if people must fear their government acting for the benefit of a few, and if the majority can attack the rights and powers of a minority, then the essential unity so essential in a democracy is lost, and when that happens the country is weakened forever...
0 Replies
 
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2011 01:28 pm
@hamilton,
hamilton wrote:

Fido wrote:

hamilton wrote:

Fido wrote:

hamilton wrote:

but the class that rules in a democracy is the class that has the least access to education- the lower class (nothing against them). is letting the weakest intelectuals govern us the best way to go?
I am certain you are missing the point some where... Democracy is control over your own affairs and your own future...

wrong. thats strangers and stupid people deciding our affairs for us.
You are wrong... You are talking about majority rule...

look to your right. look to your left. do you want those people deciding what you do? honestly, everyone has their own opinion. some arent smarter, some are just stupider. do you want everyone (strangers included) deciding what you do?
wow. thats alot of quotes...
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