@edgarblythe,
Many people place their lives in the hands of their physicians without question. Your health is still your decision. I choose to learn about all medications I may have to take,( contraindications,interactions, side effects etc). That goes for all these supplements and folk meds. Many medes and supplements have a tolerance limit and can be cumulative, or worse, become less effective with time as the body thinks up new means to reject them.
Standard medicine always presents these data and at least tries to diclose side effects. Its still up to you whether you wish to accept your physicians reccomendations. Ive argued in my own case that a specific BP med would generate more neg side effects, so I went with another med.
I do take some supplements like Niacin and Vit D3. (Nutritional biology papers have looked at this stuff for ages and have reported out convincingly in my mind).
AS far as these folk meds, Im not aware of any of them having full pharmaceutical details about side effects or contraindications.
Only when something like laetrile has undoubtedly been responsible for premature deaths do we go in and do complete pharma scans on the stuff.
Im not going to look into the credentials of any doctor prescribing laetrile I only susppect their motives.LAetrile's inventor' s own resume is one of fraud and almost criminal activity. Just from the get-go, I would not place my life in the hands of any physician that acepts testimony about laetrile without understanding how its inventor acted so fraudulently in his reporting of data and test evidence. I believe that , if one thing is suspicious, you can probably bet that others will be similarly suspicious.
I believe the laetril thing is a frameup.
As for my own use, I am very wary of new come-ons and products. Most of the things I use have been in use in one form or another for years. Some for a few centuries or longer. I also buy mainly from certain vendors, because I have been following them for a while. The alternatives I have the most trust in are made by Alpha-Omega Labs, because they have never led me astray. They produce the H3O, black salve and a few other things I use. We go back perhaps ten or more years.
I buy apricot kernels from myfathersfarm. They have extremely bitter ones.
There are some other companies that I trust, but they generally don't offer products I want. The other things I use for health come from the grocery stores and from supplements shelves.
I make my own colloidal silver. After ten or twelve years using it daily, I will never be persuaded that it is harmful.
Some people will likely experiment and do themselves harm with any product, from alternatives to prescription medicine. It's human nature.
I knew only a very few would read my link to laetrile and the story of Greg Caton.
Even when I describe personal successes with alternatives, it gets dismissed. Nobody really wants to let go of preconceived notions. I get talk of placebos and the like when I get any response at all. Yesterday, my wife was sick as a dog. She spent the entire day in bed, while I was at work. She grudgingly acknowledges that my stuff works, but does not readily turn it to her own use. She had been throwing up and had fever. I got her to have some doses of colloidal silver. She jumped up this morning, fit as a fiddle. She already took a shower and is getting ready for the morning walk. I would not be irritated with her about it, except, this is not the first time she has been through it with the silver, yet she does not ask for it when she needs it.
My dog was condemned by the vet to have expensive pills for a condition that had her walking on three legs. When the first bottle ran out, I was just gaining the benefits of H3O. (I described this earlier, but got no response). I began sharing with her, a dropper-full each day and within a few days she returned to normal. I still give her the occasional dose. For a few years of such doses, the cost to me is less than five dollars.
I could continue with more, but why bother.
@edgarblythe,
You canmake your own hydronium ion water. In most waters there is always some H3O since its a product of normal dissociation of H2O (multiples). But you can increase its presence by acidifying the water. Id reccomend lemon juice.
look up Lewis structure , hydronium ion.___________________
As far as laetrile and other meds(or supplements). The fact that one person or (even hundreds) may feel relief isnt proof positive that the folk med had anything to do with that. How meds work and their efficacy is a matter of physiology, uptake,all determined by statistical verification and testing.
In the case of laetrile, the overall statistics have shown it to be ineffective and mostly dangerous without any benefit. (Many chemos take the body close to a toxic level in order to kill the cancer). Then , when the tumors are reduced , the body must regain equilibrium.
There have been scads of pharma meds that have had wicked side effects and the administration of these is carefully controlled and not given in many cases. I think Id trust the pharma case where I can at least see the research and med testing records. I defy you to even find exhaustive testing on the efficiacy of laetrile. (I can find plenty about its verified toxicity wherein more harm has been shown than good). Pharma had done lots of testing on this in the 70's and 80's to see whether someone could patent this "wonder drug". Instead what they found was that it has only a modicum of positive outcomes and scads of negative ones.It appears that people with already compromised immune syystems and weakened respiratory systems more easily succumb to the effects of the cyanide, while stronger patients dont die, but of these that dont die, a very small amount are even helped.
The clinics report the results from these (maybe 3%) and smother any data (or report deaths by diseases other than the cancer) about the 97% who arent helped or who are greatly harmed.
Hell, a certain amount of people actually go through spontaneous remission without anything. Shall I then start touting the power of prayer? Why not?
It's obvious your predisposition to reject all non establishment approved products without any first=hand experience is preventing us from a real discussion. Here is a bit on H3O that explains it better. At least if you don't look at it, maybe somebody else will.
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October, 2001 - We introduced H3O through retail channels at ExpoEast the month after 9/11. Back in those days, people were still worried, staying out of Washington, D.C., if possible, thinking that perhaps the "next shoe was going to drop" any day. Consequently, this show turned out to be the lightest in attendance of over 100 trade shows that we attended over a 20 year period (1987-2007) . . . Nonetheless, a professor from one of the local universities, a Ph.D. in Chemistry, observed one of our demonstrations, where we added into one glass, 250 ml. of H3O (pH. 0.0) with HRx (pH. 14.0). End observable result: the two solutions cancelled each other, producing a solution with a pH of 7 . . . with no exothermic reaction!
"Impossible," the professor proclaimed, having observed the entire presentation, "what you're demonstrating is impossible -- the combination of a strong acid with a strong alkaline and no exothermic reaction." He then handed me his business card so as to reinforce both his credentials and his admonishing delivery, "Here . . . I'm a professor of chemistry and I can tell you that what you're doing violates the most basic laws of inorganic chemistry. You should be ashamed of yourself for pulling this little hat trick." He then walked away in disgust.
I mention this story because it illustrates our culture's obsession with established theoretic models and a disdain for observation. This professor of chemistry who treated me like I was an scam artist because I demonstrated something that orthodox science can't explain, wasn't really upset because he thought I was deceiving the public. What really upset him -- even though he would never admit is -- was that he didn't have a model for what he was observing. And what he was observing was in defiance of the model he already had!
Years before I would begin to author Meditopia, I would remember that moment . . . because it tells you when you have something worthy of exploration. We can't expand or grow if we only cling to experiences we can predict. It was in that moment that I knew that H3O -- and the companion solutions that use the same technology -- were truly special. They cured disease in unexpected ways just as they exhibited so many other properties that were equally unexpected and unexplained
The name of the product -- without proper explanation -- could be deceiving to those who don't take the time to read, for it is not our contention that AO H3O Concentrate is pure hydronium. One prominent patient in the field, which uses a similar process, states that the exact composition of the "H+ rich" end product is, for all intents and purposes, indeterminable, but probably consists of variations of H3O, H5O2, H7O3, H9O4, etc. -- variants of the same hydroxyl combinations found in ordinary water, just in higher concentration. What we know is that the composition of the hydroxyls yields are an aqueous solution with a far higher percentage of H+ . . .
And since we're on the subject of composition, it should be noted that a laboratory analysis of AO H3O, using HPLC, mass spectometry, or any number of chemical analysis methods will determine that the product is an aqueous solution of approximately 7% sulphuric acid. So the logical question becomes, "Is that all this is?" And what we know from extensive research, done by ourselves and HPT Research (which is now out of business -- the principals having moved on to new company names), is that the sulphuric acid is "denatured" in the manufacturing process. If it were not for the fact that the process denatures the acid, you would not able to safely drink even the diluted versions of this product.
quote from fm "The fact that one person or (even hundreds) may feel relief isnt proof positive that the folk med had anything to do with that."
So, the doc tells a man like Jason Vale that his cancer is terminal and he eats apricot kernels as his only therapy and is alive 27 years later, but the seeds did nothing and we are being scammed?
@edgarblythe,
Was the physician even correct?
Was peach pits the only thing he took?
What form of cancer?
Ive heard many oldy docs pronounce cancer as terminal only to have people live long productive lives.
Double blind testing of laetrile has led to a totally different outcome.
Thats the difference between "testimonials of varied value" and pure raw data and evidence.
@farmerman,
The tests of laetrile were falsified, from my reading.
I posted a link to Jason Vale's story earlier. While he ate the seeds, his tumors shrunk and kept getting smaller. Then he was arrested for selling the seeds and not keeping his mouth shut and spent five years in prision. Without the seeds, his tumors began growing again. Now he is out and he has access to seeds, they are again shrinking. I can't tell you what the cancer was without going to his site to refresh my memory. The link is in this thread, however.
@edgarblythe,
Sulfuric acid in the presence of 2(HOH) will serve as the acidification medium so that the dissociation of water into H3O is optimized , is entirely believable. Its nothing unusual. To me though, it sounds like the old joke about the "toxic properties of Dihydrogen Monoxide".
I am having a bit of a problem with HPLC to analyze "water" (forget the ionic structures proposed--to me thats just marketing , not chemistry).
HPLC , GCMS, SHRIMP, etc are all somewhat inaccurate with "polar" compounds (and water is where "polar" got its reference)
The H3O will eat a hole in your shirt, but if you mix it one ounce to one gallon distilled water and drink it it has marvelous results. How you can explain away the result it had for both me and the dog, I don't get. It is a near miraculous change in both of us.
@edgarblythe,
Quote: It's obvious your predisposition to reject all non establishment approved products without any first=hand experience
Before I was a geologist I was a graduate degreed chemist that worked for rare earth mineral analyses and recovery. < Today, in my business I work closely with several research level pharmacologists and chemical toxicologists so we are assured that, in my mining projects, we dont **** up the public health or the environment. SO, contyrary to your assertion, I AM really as well trained and expwerienced to talk about some of this stuff. My experience with laetrile, as I said before, was a s a result of my toxcologfists own research into how deaths were reported for patients who were taking laetrile. Also, my experience with H3) is one of its use as a diluent and a solute for selective dissociation of specific rare earths that are in silicate and phosphate forms.
Look edgar, you are passionate about this stuff and Im not. However, you started this thread and exposed yourself to whatever communications youd get on this subject. I didnt. I dont deserve your casting me as somekind of a cretin about this just because Im dubious about much of the science behind these substances and the testimonials v real data.
You can accuse me of being closed minded, and I can reciprocate but that doesnt advance anything .
STill, I havent heard about any real data on a "cure rate" for laetrile. Is anybody forthcoming?
Here is a site with case histories of successful laetrile patients.
http://www.worldwithoutcancer.org.uk/success.html
My life has been in the hands of alternative meds for almost two decades. I have been burned a few times, but I have been generally successful.
@farmerman,
I don't mind a bit of dubiousness. There are many products out there, from the worthless to the downright deadly. My point is, not all of them are such. Some of the products I use, I don't really have to. A doctor could easily take off most skin cancers, for instance. I just prefer to do it myself. It takes an appointment, missing work, no telling how many visits, plus the money. A container of Alpha-Omega Labs' black salve costs perhaps 70 dollars (I forget right now). I use it at my convenience. Clean up the offending spot, put on a little of the salve, lightly bandage, and use peroxide to cleanse away the salve in 24 hours. The last one I cured was bigger than most. I followed the just outlined procedure, then went about my business. The eschar that formed was twice as big as I expected. When it fell out, I had a quarter inch deep hole, about 1 1/2 inches long by 1 inch wide. It took three applications, but, today, the hole has filled up and the portion of leg is smooth, with a bit of a scar. Cost to me: perhaps 25 cents and no disruption in my routine. - My grandfather had skin cancers surgically removed many times, over a span of twenty years. He was fine. I am fine.
Farmerman, I have no problem with you as a person. I respect you more than most people I have known in recent years, here in Tomball or on the net. I see you as a good scientist, who associates with good scientists. I just think you may consider scientists of every stripe as high principled as yourself. I believe from my reading and personal experiences that big pharma and those who have interests in medicine are not above falsifying their research in the name of obscene profits. I am off to the job again. No time to say more.
People get excited when informed the cancer death rate is going down. Out a bit more than half a million deaths per year, the rate is down 1.8% for this type of cancer, 1% for that, and so forth. But, when they solved polio and smallpox, the drop was no paltry 1 or 2 percent. They spend far more money (and make far more money!) on cancer. Just saying.
Fellow alternatives users: The government, big pharma and the AMA are making war on your right to use these products. I know most of you are possibly ill and haven't the time or inclination to get involved. Understandable, since your personal struggle is probably a life and death matter. But the rest of us, who have strength to fight, ought to do so, even if only through our internet activity. Jim Humble's newsletter came to day. I am going to reproduce his message here:
Kill Order #?
5/10/2011
I have just learned from a highly reliable source that the FBI now has a kill order on Jim Humble. That’s me. I wish I could say that the Government source isn’t very reliable, but this source has proven to be very reliable up to this time. Several plans were to be considered including having me invited to a country in Asia and there I would have an accident. The other possibility was that I could have an accident here in the Dominican Republic, but that would be a less likely plan. They kidnapped my friend, Greg Caton, from Ecuador and brought him back to prison after Ecuador had given him political asylum. It was in the newspaper about a year ago. Check it out for yourself. Search for "Greg Canton Kidnapped" in Google search. I have another friend in prison for healing people and another one, with his legs blown off for healing people. There is a list of 160 scientists who have made inventions that would aid mankind in one way or another who have died violent deaths in the past 20 years. That isn’t my idea. Check it out on the internet. I don’t care if you believe in conspiracy theories or not; just be willing to read. It’s all there.
The reason I am telling you this is, so that when I come up missing or come up dead you will know what has really happened. And of course, you probably already know that should my death occur, all my books and other materials on MMS become public domain. That is already written into my copyright. Hopefully then, people who knew me or of me will print my books, mainly the last one, and hand them out wholesale until everyone on the planet has one.
I know that there are many of you that are not accustomed to this sort of thing, but on the other hand I have gotten letters from time to time that show that there are many people who do know the score. And the score is, that there are people in this world who are beginning to lose money because of MMS. That, of course is, pharmaceutical companies, hospitals, clinics, doctors, and a host of related industries. They aren’t too worried about a few million dollars of losses now, but they are looking at the huge loss that will soon be happening when MMS becomes popular. We all know that, “the love of money”, is one of the main reasons for the world’s problems.
Of course, it is a little late for them to do anything now with more than 8 million people having used MMS and with thousands of web sites and with thousands of MMS success stories posted all over the world. But still, if they could say I disappeared and then if they put some poisoned MMS out without me to oppose them they might make some of their lies stick. Remember, for every cancer patient that they convince that MMS doesn’t work they make $800,000 dollars for the cancer industry. A similar story exists for malaria the worst disease of mankind and many other diseases.
Our present ongoing seminar this week: I wish you could meet the people here for this seminar. They are quite similar to the other seminar people over the last year. Most have said to me, “I just came because I had to come.” You got to understand that. All of us are a part of a group that agreed to come here for the third millennium millions of years ago. We all want to save Earth. Come and join us. And listen, if you can’t get the money, let us know. We’ll try to help you. Come and become a minister in our non-religious church. The more people that are trained, the quicker we can help this world become, “a world without disease”.
Bookmark this post and then wait to see if indeed the good Jim Humble does meet a dire fate.
