Reply
Tue 26 Apr, 2011 10:15 pm
Only a summary. Is the summary a Commentary?
Context:
Three Kingdoms: A Somewhat Less Than Critical Commentary
An Outline
by David Keffer
based on the translation by Moss Roberts
Foreign Languages Press/University of California Press, Beijing/Berkeley, 1991
Started: March 14, 2004
Last Updated: February 18, 2005
For full context, click:
http://poisonpie.com/words/others/somewhat/threekingdoms/text/outline.html
The Romance of the Three Kingdoms is a fascinating tale.
The only answer i could give to your question would be that your link takes one to an outline of the the book, and that perhaps the commentary is embodied in the full text, but not apparent in the outline.
@oristarA,
Quote:Three Kingdoms: A Somewhat Less Than Critical Commentary(...) An Outline
The
phrase above announces that this is not a
critical commentary. It is a euphemism for the absence of what might be expected.
Thank you both.
But Fresco, "somehow less than" refers to "not"? A euphemism for "critical comment"?
@oristarA,
That's correct. Imagine a radio commentary of a live football match without any "critical comments". The listener would hear a "sketch" or "outline" of the action with no analysis.
@oristarA,
BTW: live reads [liv] ?
Not sure what you mean by bracketed notation here. "Live" means "happening now" as opposed to a recording.
@fresco,
fresco wrote:
BTW: live reads [liv] ?
Not sure what you mean by bracketed notation here. "Live" means "happening now" as opposed to a recording.
I meant its pronunciation. The pronunciation of the word live is: [liv]?
I cannot agree with Fresco. A somewhat less than critical commentary doesn't mean that there is no commentary, it simply means that whatever commentary this might be would be somewhat less than critical. In fact, it implies that there is a commentary. I dissent completely from his comments.
Live is pronounced in this case as would be the word dive, or hive, or thrive . . .
Apparently, Fresco has withdrawn his last post. This is my response to that post:
Apparently, it doesn't occur to you that it is possible to comment without doing so critically. You are entirely wrong that we disagree about the phrase "to comment." I disagree that "somewhat less" means that there is no commentary at all. You are entirely wrong about that, as well. In fact, in literature and history (and The Romance of the Three Kingdoms is the world's first historical novel), commentary may not be critical at all. So, for example, if someone provided a translation into English of Ad urbe condita, they might also provide commentary to supply the reader with information which Titus Livius assumed that his Roman audience would know, but which is obscure or unknown to modern readers.
So, it is very reasonable that Luo Guanzhong, writing almost seven hundred years ago, at the dawn of the Ming Dynasty, would refer to information which is obscure or unknown to the modern reader. It would be appropriate to provide commentary which elucidates these matters. That commentary might well not be considered critical--other commentary might be critical. That would make the commentary, overall, somewhat less than critical.
@Setanta,
The reason I withdrew my post is that I found I was going down a technical exposition of the "Derrida" view of "text" which was inappropriate to the needs of the questioner...namely that the "intended meaning" of a statement resides only with the originator...and in this case the originator appears to be distancing himself from
general definitions of "commentary" which would imply some degree of critical analysis. Thus
your analysis rests on the assumption that "general semantics" is valid for the needs of the OP, whereas mine focuses on "meaning" being "context specific". There is a whole hornets nest of issue here about the specific needs of particular non-native speakers , which some linguists argue can only be solved by "total immersion in the culture". Our answers tend to be a poor substitute for that.
The chopping of logic about semantics is certainly a poor substitute for a reasonable speculation on wherein the commentary would lie.
@Setanta,
1."Speculation" is culturally directed by multiple experiences of usage. The non-native speaker does not have the luxury of that.
2. "Logic" is a sub-domain of semantics. It assumes a representational isomorphism between "words" and "things". But the "holistic semantics" (Quine) to which I refer has no requirement for the word "commentary" to refer to the existence of an
actual "commentary". Indeed the context specific meaning I suggest comes from
contrast to such "a commentary". (Ref: the Gestalt concept of "figure-ground")
It's hilarious to see that cart load of bullshit after you've attempted to lecture me on what will be useful for the non-native speaker. I really don't see any practical value to your flights of fancy and your word games for helping a non-native speaker to understand English.
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:Less Than Critical
looks like you're running into problems with idioms again.
take out "somewhat less than critical" and the title makes sense
Three Kingdoms: A Commentary
~~~~
"A less than critical commentary" is the next step in understanding the title
then add somewhat
~~~
understanding which parts of sentences are independent words and which are idioms or phrases is an important stage in your EFL development
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
oristarA wrote:Less Than Critical
looks like you're running into problems with idioms again.
take out "somewhat less than critical" and the title makes sense
Three Kingdoms: A Commentary
~~~~
"A less than critical commentary" is the next step in understanding the title
then add somewhat
~~~
understanding which parts of sentences are independent words and which are idioms or phrases is an important stage in your EFL development
Thanks.
But be frank, I know how to analyze a sentence. In this case, the meaning of "less than critical " is the suspended question not solved.
The previous reply about it has been denied by Setanta. And you have given me no answer as well.
@oristarA,
What I'm trying to explain to you, again, is that you need to study idioms if you want to proceed with your EFL work/studies.
You continue to have difficulty identifying when words are simply words, or parts of phrases/idioms. You do not know how to analyze a sentence if you can't identify idioms/phrases when they are being used.
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:" The previous reply about it has been denied by Setanta.
Setanta didn't just deny a previous reply - he answered the question for you.
@ehBeth,
If I were to explain to oristarA the meaning of the phrase "somewhat less than honest", I would revert to the concept of a euphemism for "
absence of honesty". How would you do it ?
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