Daughter Singled Out Going Thru Airport Security

Cyclops, you write some of the most astute and relevant posts on this forum in my opinion. But sometimes you sure can appear to be a narrowminded, elitist ass. For someone to be so cavalier about saying someone "chose a job that forces him to grope people...and then chose not to quit" in this economy is either tone deaf and insensitive, or just a plain ass. And to say that only stupid people see some usefulness to the present airport security is just not a very well considered thought.

You don't need to be so dismissive of differing opinions, especially to people who are not dissing you.

Exactly.

Like I said cy, I can't say how effective the security system is, I have no argument with you in that regards.

But, you're fortunate that you can pick and choose what kind of work you will and won't do.

Why make someone's job harder?
Even if the person could get another job, that's still no reason to disrespect them by staring and making comments.

Also, I don't think these people are "groping" anyone. There was another thread awhile back where some people insisted on calling the searches "groping, feeling somone up, getting off" etc.
I was embarrassed for the people that were using those terms, like they didn't even see their minds were in the gutter. Oh, like another thread where someone was saying giving someone a pelvic exam was rape, because there wasn't proof the exam did any good.

No one is groping anyone. Geez.

Exactly. Saying something is so random it couldn't work doesn't really make sense (saying that respectfully linkey)
That's what random is. It's not "let's make it random, unless it's a kid. We'll skip them"

Of course! HE doesn't have to pay his rent or have enough money for food and clothes. Not everyone has the luxury to be so picky about the job they are so lucky to have, let alone a well paying job at that.

Hi tsar.

I'm still trying to figure out how one would address the question "Really, why not?" as far as wondering why some people don't have the luxury of those kinds of options.

Well, I see that I stirred up a hornet's nest with my comments.

Soz stated that there are some who are forced to have the job they have, and that I should not be so judgmental. That is a fair point, and I understand why folks would have the reactions they did, and in retrospect I should not have been so flip with my response to her when she gently pointed that out to me.

The rest of the post is me describing my thoughts on the matter, but shouldn't be construed as an attempt by me to pick a fight with any of you, because I am not interested in fighting with anyone on this topic.

Are we to hold everyone not responsible for the choices they make, about what they do? Is everyone just 'following orders?' Are we all just to shut up quietly and do as we are told? I cannot believe that this is true or acceptable. Some people are desperate and forced into their position, but others are not. And if the majority are, what does that say for the actual effectiveness of the system? I don't accept the fact that those who are on the front lines of a shitty system, don't themselves accept responsibility for the system.

I find the so-called safety measures today to be intrusive and offensive, and for nothing at all. No greater safety than a simple metal detector. The entire process is reactive, not proactive. Some guy tries to light his shoes, now we all have to take our shoes off. Some guys try to make liquid bombs (or maybe they didn't), now we can't bring liquids on planes. Some jackass tries to light his underwear on fire, now we have to get 'patted down.'

Chai, three weeks ago, in Oakland airport, I was felt up by the guy who was 'patting me down' as thoroughly as anyone ever has in my life. I fly regularly and I've been through the routine a lot, with various results. But this was the worst ever. Unprofessionally so. The guy wasn't really paying attention, I think, he was talking to another guard there. He was instantly embarrassed, which is not something that happens when you're doing your job correctly. I'm glad that you have had fine experiences in the past, or don't give a **** - but, not everybody has the same opinion, yaknow? I've also watched my wife be given a hard time and patted down to a level that she was quite uncomfortable with.

I suppose it's also fair to say that I don't have to fly anywhere unless I want to. It's also fair to say that I shouldn't become so incensed over something that doesn't matter when compared to starving people or other problems. But I just can't accept a system which simultaneously violates my right to not be felt by a stranger and which also doesn't accomplish the purpose. It doesn't make anyone who gets on the airplane any safer than a simple metal detector would.

That second part grates on my mind as much as the first.

Cycloptichorn

Cyclo
You could just say "I didnt think my comment through, i just.... reacted."

replying to an early post on the thread, why do you not get a grip and think that anyone so motivated will use babies? I've no doubt there are links to all of that.

I do get checking kids. I get checking miscellaneous people.

I gather we have to learn from israeli modes, but am not just acquiescing.

I'm the one who hates bombs.

Sure, and that's exactly what happened. But I don't want you to think I would say such a thing as an excuse, because I don't really believe in excuses. I said what I did because I didn't like way the guy touched me, and I don't like the system that makes me have to put up with it.

I'm sure it would have been more polite for me to say nothing to the guy, who probably, as others said, is doing this job because he's forced to. But, it doesn't always occur to me to be polite when I'm feeling violated.

Cycloptichorn

The problem is that complaining here about the national security process of the US airports ISN'T going to change anything. Making the TSA agents feel ashamed for what they're doing (regardless of how ineffective or how little training they have) ISN'T going to get the practice and policy changed.

And none of your security criticisms are original. They're accurate but not original. Many of us here has heard these criticisms ad nauseam against Homeland Security, TSA, and the policy wonks who dictate these ineffectual policies from more effective sources.

If you feel you know how these matters should be handled in the US, then feel free to enter politics. If getting any job is so easy as you seemingly implied in previously dismissive post against the TSA agent doing his job then you'll find yourself in position to actually help change national security policy.

I haven't seen a lot of evidence of stuff like that.

Cycloptichorn

In the Vietnam war alone, children and babies were used for carrying live grenades (sans pins) in order to get closer to the American soldiers. It's not an original concept and the tactic has been used throughout history.

I don't know if this is necessarily true.

Look, I was just offering my opinion on the matter. I'm not on a ******* crusade against the TSA, here on A2K or elsewhere. If people don't want to talk about it, don't respond to what I wrote.



I didn't claim that any of them are original.



I don't want to go into politics, because it is clear to me that it is destructive to the personal lives of 99% of people who do it. But I appreciate the suggestion. I write my Congressman about stuff like this from time to time.

Cycloptichorn

Cyclo
I've seen kids used as soldiers in many thirdwrold conflicts.
Personally i think your attitude is selfish. You mightnt like it much but that no reason to make the security man feel bad. Your dick wont feel much different to the other 20 or 30 he's felt today.
We all have to sometimes do things we dont like for the greater good.
Try flying into Australia before you start whining. Theres an arms length list of stuff you cant bring.

But the whole point is, it isn't for the greater good. It doesn't make us any safer. I wouldn't be as upset about it if I thought there was a good reason.

Not only that, but it was far more intrusive than the many other times I've been through the process. Even if I agreed with the entire idea that these 'pat-downs' are appropriate or necessary - which I don't - I would still think the guy was touching me inappropriately.

Cycloptichorn

Exactly! I wish people bothered to question these concepts more instead of just assuming that they are reasonable.

a lot of us do.
I think the systems that are set up in airports are plain ****.

But i would never spit in another persons face , or insult them for the job they do. Especially at that level. Being rude to the guards gets about the same amount accomplished as the pat down he gave did...

Where did I say anything about that though? I don't advocate spitting in anyone's face, just independent thought and not assuming that the security theater has a point.

i did not say you did?
i said I wouldnt judge someone for the job they choose based on the original comment about how CY reacted to a guard which was part of what I quoted. I did not say that you said anything like that. I quoted your post because I agreed with you, stated so, then I stated my thought about cy's reaction.

I see, well I didn't know anything about Cyclo's reaction and didn't get where that came from at all.

Have read it now and while I wouldn't give the guard a hard time I don't think he did too much either. Not sure if there's a dignified way to have your junk forcibly fondled and I think some feedback about the displeasure is fair game.

Of course, I don't support being rude or anything but it just doesn't sound like he was all that rude to me, just looking angry and asking an uncomfortable question isn't as bad as having to touch his junk.