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Pope John Paul II speaks

 
 
au1929
 
Reply Thu 1 Jan, 2004 02:14 pm
Pope calls for a new world order

Thursday, January 1, 2004 Posted: 9:21 AM EST (1421 GMT)

VATICAN CITY (AP) -- Pope John Paul II rang in the New Year on Thursday with a renewed call for peace in the Middle East and Africa and the creation of a new world order based on respect for the dignity of man and equality among nations.

The pope talks but is anyone listening. Do his words have any power on the world stage.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/01/01/pope.ny.ap/index.html
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,061 • Replies: 16
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Greyfan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jan, 2004 07:38 pm
1 Timothy 3:5 - (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

Pedophilia, the suppression of women, opposition to birth control, and millions of dollars that could be used to help the poor tied up in real estate and treasures, while the pontiff demonstrates his faith in God by riding in bulletproof cars.

The Pope and the Catholic Church lack moral authority, I think.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2004 01:15 am
Quoting fro the speech:
"More than ever we need a new international order which draws on the experience and results of the United Nations."
"An order which is capable of finding adequate solutions to today's problems, based on the dignity of human beings, on integrating all society, on solidarity between rich and poor countries, on the sharing of resources and the extraordinary results of scientific and technological progress."


No one listens? Perhaps not in the USA.

Lack of moral authority? Yes, like all of us in Old Europe.


BTW, Greyfan, are you an expert in Moral Theology to come to such declusions?
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2004 05:32 am
Sounds to me like the pope had lots to say that was very valuable -- and I would hope that all people of good will could look at it; separate it from any anger they might harbor toward the Church because of glaring inconsistencies within that institution...

...and take the message to heart.
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2004 05:41 am
Quote:
He called for "an order that is able to give adequate solutions to today's problems based on the dignity of the human being, on an integral development of society, on solidarity among nations rich and poor, on the sharing of resources and the extraordinary results of scientific and technical progress."


For a church that is averse to abortion, birth control, stem cell experimentation, and the like, his words sound pretty hollow to me.

The problem is that the stance of the church on those matters is a not so minor stumbling block in bringing up the poorer nations to a decent standard of living.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2004 01:14 pm
Well, Phoenix, like the majority of Europeans I'm against stem cell experimentation as well.

And I know that many US-Americans are strictly against birth controll.

Do you call me and them hollow as well?
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2004 02:49 pm
Walter
Are there laws in Europe that hinder stem cell research?
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2004 03:19 pm
Yes.

In Europe, Sweden, Finland, Greece, the Netherlands and Britain only allow harvesting stem cells from so-called supernumerary embryos - ones that are the result of in vitro fertilisation - under certain conditions.

Britain is the only EU member state that allows the creation of human embryos for stem cell procurement.



The European Parliament voted last year voted by 291 to 235 to support new quality and safety standards for "the manipulation of tissues and cells" after intense lobbying by patients' groups and medical researchers.
(However, the decision is not binding. The last word still rests with member states.)


The latest on EU level is to be read here:

Block on EU cash for stem cell research
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yeahman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2004 05:47 pm
Is there any institution or person you can say that you completely agree with on all the issues?

http://abcnews.go.com/images/pdf/935a2Pope.pdf

88% of American Catholcs believe that birth control is morally acceptable.
30% say that abortion is morally acceptable.

39% of Catholics say that the pope has influenced their moral views.
7-13% of non-Catholics say the pope has influenced their religious beliefs, moral views, personal behavior, and/or political opinions.

Interestingly, most Americans in general, believe that abortion is morally unacceptable. And half of Catholics believe that homosexuality is morally acceptable which is higher than Americans in general.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2004 06:02 pm
Ye 110
Quote:
Interestingly, most Americans in general, believe that abortion is morally unacceptable
.

Do you have any substantiation of that statement?
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Greyfan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2004 06:04 pm
Walter wrote

Quote:
BTW, Greyfan, are you an expert in Moral Theology to come to such declusions?


No. My reasons for arriving at that "declusion" were stated. But you can disagree, as it appears you do, without fear of my calling your right to voice an opinion into question.
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Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2004 06:07 pm
I'm with you frank, don't shoot the message/r.

A positive statement does not make up for the crimes. The catholic church has done some hideous things and published some bizarre and/or dangerous edicts. But give credit where it's due.
Scientific breakthroughs are not limited to contentious issues. His thoughts are sound, dignity and solidarity for all humans is necessary for peace and harmony.
A new world order is also necessary. The US can't and shouldn't do it alone.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2004 06:32 pm
Thanks Ceili.
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yeahman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2004 06:38 pm
au1929 wrote:
Ye 110
Quote:
Interestingly, most Americans in general, believe that abortion is morally unacceptable
.

Do you have any substantiation of that statement?

It's from the poll I linked.
39% of Americans believe that "abortion when the mother's life is not in danger" is "morally acceptable." 58% believe that it is "morally unacceptable."

Found other polls.
http://www.pollingreport.com/abortion.htm

Quote:
Do you believe that human life begins at conception, or once the baby may be able to survive outside the mother's womb with medical assistance, or when the baby is actually born??/span>

% .

At conception 55
Survive outside womb 23
At birth 13
Not sure 9


Most believe that abortion should be legal when the mother is in danger, in cases of rape, incest, or if the child will be handicapped. But only 35% believe abortion should be legal "When the woman or family cannot afford to raise the child."

There is also overwhelming opposition to 2nd or 3rd trimester abortions. The majority of Democrats, Independents, and Republicans oppose partial-birth abortion when the mother's life is not in danger.
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jan, 2004 06:54 pm
"More U.S. women confront unintended pregnancy than women in nearly every other developed country. " from an article at : www.crlp.org/pub_art_sylvialaw.html sort of makes me wonder how u.s.( and other ) drug companies can make very RESPECTABLE profits from selling birth-control pills, if it is found morally unacceptable by many people. mutual funds, pension funds etc. invest in these drug companies; do people that are against birth-control make sure that they do not profit from these PROFITs by the drug companies ? just wondering . hbg ... what about accepting political contributions from these companies ? still wondering ...
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jan, 2004 07:17 am
Greyfan wrote:

No. My reasons for arriving at that "declusion" were stated. But you can disagree, as it appears you do, without fear of my calling your right to voice an opinion into question.


It's okay for me.

However, and thus my question, due to Roman Church Law, the Pope is the moral authority ... for Catholics.
0 Replies
 
Greyfan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jan, 2004 08:54 pm
Upon further reflection, I doubt the world will take any message to heart, regardless of the moral authority of the speaker. Every speaker seems to represent one side, raising huzzahs from followers and suspicions from the other camps.

Who is in a position to speak for the world?
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