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Priming tree rounds

 
 
DRIzzle
 
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 01:25 pm
Greetings,

I have some disks that were cut out of tree trunks and I wish to paint on them.

I have rabbit skin glue for priming the wood. What I am wondering.....the disks themselves are prone to cracking. I am wondering if the rabbit skin glue can double as a primer so the wood will accept oil paint without yellowing and crumbling but also serve to help stabilise the wood.

Has anyone had any experience with this? So far, what I've been doing is coating the disks with safflower oil to help slow the drying proccess and lessen the risk of cracking, furthermore storing the disks fo awhile before painting them....really, I feel to be safe I need them stored for a year or so. I want to paint something now, so this is annoying. Any advice?


Thanks.
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 01:54 pm
@DRIzzle,
I would consider one year a minimum for seasoning. It's possible to remove moisture quicker in a relatively small piece, but I would anticipate severe warping, or in the case of tree rounds - cracking.

I would have used just any conventional primer on the end grain to retard drying and cracking, but rabbit hide glue may be as good or better. Never heard of the technique before. I would only mess with hide glue if I needed the flexibility.

Maybe farmerman or dadpad will drop in. They know more about this stuff than I.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 03:24 pm
@DRIzzle,
You could soak them in PEG. Here's a few links that will explain:

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Using_PEG_for_dimensional_stability.html

http://owic.oregonstate.edu/pubs/peg.pdf

http://www.ehow.com/polyethylene-glycol/

http://forums.finewoodworking.com/fine-woodworking-knots/wood-and-materials/how-dryseason-rounds
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 04:18 pm
@DRIzzle,
Ive been told to wrap the tree sections in plastic and let them dry in a place thats under roof. Certain trees are prone to cracking anyway. If they dry too quickly I think the chances for cracking are increased.

Why the rabbit hide glue? are you gonna gold leaf the wood?
What kind of wood is it? Oak cracks easily unless its kept in longer length logs as it dries. I have some PAwlonia logs that Im going to slab and use for carving celtic patterns on. The logs were about 8 ft and 15" OD. I p;ut them in the barn about 3 years ago and Im gonna weigh them this mAy to see whether they are down to where I need em for band sawing.
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 04:42 pm
@farmerman,
If I'm not mistaken, Farmer, PEG replaces the water and "drying" isn't necessary. But it's been a while since I read up in the stuff and I've never had occasion to need it.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 05:15 pm
@JTT,
polythene glycol will leave the wood like the wood on the VASA. Its not something that will leave it in a condition for further carving. PEG is used to restore boats and wood that is close to rotting and is a slow but complex process. When they impregnated and dried the VASA, they sprayed it with the Glycol for like 6 years.I think we can do better with green wood to drying in less time than that by just drying.PEG is like using a nuke to kill ants. Course I dont have any experience with PEG on wood projects . Have you ever used it JT? I saw that its a stabilizer oif youre carving but doesnt bind well with certain paints or varnishes.
Course, when I saw the VASA it looked really shiny and waxy . The look was as good as they could get even though it looked kinda like a plastic repro.

Maybe Dadpad will know. As far as I recall PEG leaves the wood feeling really waxy.
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 06:06 pm
@farmerman,
Here's a discussion from the FineWoodWorking link I provided in an earlier post:

Quote:
Mikely:
Here in the NY area we just had a terrible wind storm that brought down lots of mature hardwood trees. A neighbor lost a very big beech tree. The tree service doing the clean up gave me two sections of the trunk that I hope to use to make rustic coffee tables. Each segment is approximately 3ft diameter and about 6 inches thick. This wood is very heavy as it is totally saturated with water/sap. My question is how should I store these rounds and what is the procedure to season them so they don't split or have minimal splitting and also don't become infested with bugs? I have read other posts suggesting using PEG but don't understand how to go about doing everything.

++++++++++++++++++++

The basics...
by JohnWW in reply to mikelv [original] on Sun, 03/21/2010 - 18:23
PEG is a waxy substance that is dissolved in water. When green wood is soaked in a PEG solution the PEG soaks into the wood. Once a sufficient amount of PEG is in the wood it can then be dried out without the normal shrinkage and cracking. PEG is considered non toxic and the treated wood handles and finishes more or less like untreated wood although not all finishes will work on PEG treated wood.

The rounds should be prevented from drying out until they can be submerged in a vat of PEG solution. However the wet wood will begin to have mold growing on within a matter of days or weeks at most, so you need to get started soon on ordering some PEG and finding or building a big enough vat to submerge the rounds in.

If you do a Google search for "Using PEG on wood" you will get a lot of detailed information. This PDF from the University of Oregon covers the process in some detail: owic.oregonstate.edu/pubs/peg.pdf

John White Shop Manager for FWW Magazine, 1998 to 2007


===============

That Oregon link I provided in an earlier post. The discussion, goes on to say that there is another product,

Quote:
One other link I found in the google search was to www.preservation-solutions.com/sealgreen... They recommend something called Pentacryl instead of PEG. They state, "Instead, I'd recommend a wood stabilizer called Pentacryl (Preservation-Solutions.com). It brushes on and penetrates quickly, making it suitable for both large and small pieces. And it doesn't leave a residue, so you can use any glue and finish after the wood dries." This sounds much more suitable to my situation since I wouldn't need to fabricate a big vat to soak the rounds in. However, since they also sell this stuff I am a touch skeptical. They also feature a review by Michael Dresdner who seems pretty enthusiastic about Pentacryl.


No, as I mentioned, Farmer, I've never had occasion to work with big pieces of wet wood that needed stabilization, so I've never used PEG.

The last guy in that discussion mentioned the problems with some finishes. He had to strip and use a different finish.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 06:14 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
polythene glycol will leave the wood like the wood on the VASA. Its not something that will leave it in a condition for further carving. PEG is used to restore boats and wood that is close to rotting and is a slow but complex process.


The Oregon State PDF I just downloaded, which I haven't had time to read thoroughly yet, seems to contradict your first statement, above, Farmer. Remember, 'seems' I say.

From my recollection of reading about this stuff 25 or so years ago, its main purpose was for stabilizing new green wood. I suppose that a sunken ship is an example of "green" wood, in the wet sense.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 06:40 pm
@JTT,
I looked up the various wood stabiliers . PEG was about 45$ for a small plastic tub .
I think the author is looking for something simple rogers "end seler makes good sense . I astill like the slow dry method cause you can slab several rounds out of a stump.
0 Replies
 
dadpad
 
  2  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 07:13 pm
The only time I've tried this was with some small blackwood (Acaia melenoxyn) branch wood I was trying to make into drink coasters. I cut the rounds green and coated the flat sides with watered down PVA glue. It was successfull with some rounds and not with others initially but eventually all the rounds cracked or split to some degree. I was pretty dissapointed as the wood showed the most georgous medular rays

12 months in plastic bag would be worth a try but really the stresses set up by drying round wood is pretty phenomenal.
FM I'd slab that pawlonia while its still green then stack and sticker it to stop warping. Wrap the stack well in plastic to slow dry it for 12 months.
then again i know nothing about pawlonia so ignore that if you want.

My brother works at a timber mill and they just dock the splits and cracks off the ends of boards. Their forest crew coat the ends of logs with a waxy/oily substance to reduce end splits. Then they are kept under mist sprays until milled.

One thing that might work is burying the rounds. Maybe more than a shovel depth but i guess that depends on your soil moisture and other weather conditions.
dadpad
 
  2  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 07:19 pm
@dadpad,
I might also add that lots depends on the type of tree and the conditions it was grown under.
A non forest tree that hasnt been crowded by other saplings and trees will have less stress within the stem structure and be less likely to crack. a tree thats really old 60 - 80 years will have less stress than a younger one.
dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 07:24 pm
@dadpad,
Op might like to post his query here. theres some pretty good heads on that site. It might be prudent to post the type of wood if known.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 07:24 pm
<listening>
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 07:27 pm
I'm not sure any of you care about tags, but I don't see this as mainly home improvement. Any chance any of you will add "woodworking" as a choice? It might bring in some other posters from the google world. Or, wood working. If you add that, let me know, and I'll add that version too.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 07:55 pm
@dadpad,
I did slab some of the pawlonia first. It was a pain in the ass to cut on the portable saw mill. The guy couldnt keep his resaw band strait, and the wood heated up(Maybe his blade was dull too). SO the rest of it I just kept uner roof and it looks pretty good . Like I say Im gonna weigh the batches by putting all 4 big logs on the front end loader, drive down to the feed mill and dump the wood,take a tare on my loader and then weigh the loader with the wood on the bucket(I have a big manure fork on for the spring so it fits alot of wood.
Its a 3 mile trip just to weigh my wood and compute the moisture %.

PAwlonia is a great light and strong wood for cutting. I built a couple of hanging and painted corner cupboards for relatives and friends and it was easy working, and the product was really neat.

Now that JTT got those links, Ive noticed that, according to the articles, the PEG has a habit of making the grain firmer(Which,as you know, pawlonia can have a fuzzy texture). SO when I carve, maybe Ill try some PEG infused wood and see whether that doesnt help make the carving cuts more distinct.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 08:00 pm
@dadpad,
we had put in a new series of pasture fences this winter. THey use a lathed treated post that is fairly stout and lasts for decades (Our old locust posts just rotted after 10 years, too humid here).
ANYWAYA, the fence guy had his helper cut up some plastic 1/2 gallon jugs that he fit over the tops of the fence posts and then he takes a torch to melt the plastic until it forms like a coating on the end grain of the posts. ACtually looks pretty good and will keep water from leaching into the end grain of the treated posts. Coirse, we put up almost 2 miles of fence and he needed hundreds of [plastic jugs and he hadda cut em all and torch em. SO the work was not minimal.
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 08:23 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
THey use a lathed treated post that is fairly stout and lasts for decades (Our old locust posts just rotted after 10 years, too humid here).


"decades", kinda gives them an out, don't it? Or so they say at this time. I hope you hang on for 50 years to raise **** if they don't last that long, Farmer.

Old husband's tale, I don't know but I've heard that a shovel full or two of say 3/4" rock at the bottom of each pole hole helps a lot.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 08:31 pm
@ossobuco,
Added 'woodworking', Osso.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 08:33 pm
@JTT,
Weve had some of the treated posts in for 20 years on another whole section and they , even without the melted plastic hats, are like new.
We use a 3 position post driver that runs off a 200HP john Deere . The post drivers rely on the soil structure. The fence posts are about 8 ft long and only stick out of the ground about 4. So its a 4 ft drive STones wont help drainage any because its clay down to bedrock, and becdrock is 35 feet.However, We always cement the corner posts (where the fence turns an angle) and these are even bigger treated posts. THey all have points like pencils.

Weput a gate in at a lower pasture and busted through a fence to put in the gate posts. Whe I pulled up the 20 year old treated posts, they were in water and they werent even flaking, they were really tight and treated.

We dont use the As treated stuff anymore. They quit that baout 30 years ago
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 08:39 pm
@DRIzzle,
Ive used rabbit hide for gold leafing and for tempera priming , but Im not familiar with it as a wood ground for oils. I know the old timers did some and I have a recipe book for old tricks and tips. Ill look for it in the AM (ITs outside in the studio) .
0 Replies
 
 

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