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European Court of Human Rights: Crucifixes are acceptable in public school classrooms

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2011 08:26 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:
I am not familiar with what Tertullianus wrote about the cross....can you quote it ?


You can read it online >HERE<
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2011 08:30 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

The cross was never popular until well after Constantinius banned crucifixion .


Itw wasn't "very" popular. See for instance Jeffrey Spier, Picturing the Bible - The Earliest Christian Art, Fort Worth, 2007
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2011 08:34 am
@Walter Hinteler,
My Latin is not that good...do you know of an English Translation ? Or was that your attempt at humuor ?
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2011 08:39 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The Chi-Rho, the cross, the fish and other symbols have all been found as grafitti since the earliest times of Christianity . I chose to comment on one of those, the Chi-Rho as being one we can safely say was used officially and from a specific time onwards .
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2011 09:19 am
@Ionus,
You asked for a quote - he wrote in Latin.

I think, since you are a native English speaker, you easily cam look for a translation by yourself. (Or ask George.)
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2011 04:51 pm
@Ionus,
A cult that for centuries did not have an official ruling body and even then there was such a body there was major branches that did not accept the ruling body powers the idea of the first official symbol is kind of meaningless in my opinion.

The fish was in wide spread used before the concept of an official body existed.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2011 05:01 pm
@BillRM,
"The most learned man is always the one who commands thirty legions.”

If he says it is the Chi-Rho then that's official . Your dislike of the matter is immaterial .

Quote:
The fish was in wide spread used before the concept of an official body existed.
Widespread, yes, but it was not the only wide spread symbol as I pointed out .
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2011 11:34 am
@Ionus,
Even by then the Christian cult had spread far beyond the Roman borders.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2011 11:57 am
@BillRM,
Besides that, Christianity became the state religion in 301 AD in Armenia, that#s some years before it became tolerated in Rome and three dozen years before Constantinus was baptised. (In the Empire of Aksum, Christianity became the state religion earlier than in Roman Empire as well.)


Though I do agree that states can/could give any Christian symbol the meaning of an "official" symbol, I'm not aware any "official" symbol by the early Christian church or it's follower-ups like the Catholic church, the Orthodox churches etc.
fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2011 04:37 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
But the fact is that the cross is NOT an official symbol of the Italian State.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 03:20 pm
The Court decided that,
Quote:
beyond its religious meaning, the crucifix symbolised the principles and values which formed the foundation of democracy and western civilisation, and that its presence in classrooms was justifiable on that account.


Quote:
It referred on that point to its earlier case-law in which it had held8 that having regard to the preponderance of one religion throughout the history of a country the fact that the school curriculum gave it greater prominence than other religions could not in itself be viewed as a process of indoctrination. It observed that a crucifix on a wall was an essentially passive symbol whose influence on pupils was not comparable to that of didactic speech or participation in religious activities.

"The Court also considered that the effects of the greater visibility which the presence of the crucifix gave to Christianity in schools needed to be further placed in perspective by consideration of the following points: the presence of crucifixes was not associated with compulsory teaching about Christianity; according to the Government, Italy opened up the school environment to other religions (pupils were authorised to wear symbols or apparel having a religious connotation; non-majority religious practices were taken into account; optional religious education could be organised in schools for all recognised religious creeds; the end of Ramadan was often celebrated in schools, and so on). There was nothing to suggest that the authorities were intolerant of pupils who believed in other religions, were non-believers or who held non-religious philosophical convictions.


Well, score one for the Roman Catholic Church in Italy, but what seems to mitigate that "greater prominence" given to the RCC by allowing the display of the crucifix is that Italy is tolerant of other religious displays and observances.
0 Replies
 
 

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