How strict is God?

I personally am Christian, but I disagree with the common idea of hell. Taken from my view (There is a God, Jesus Christ, etc.), It contradicts what we have been taught from childhood - God loves you, is kind and all-forgiving. If so, why does he throw you into a flaming pit for eternity if you disobey him? I understand even if loved, punishment can be unavoidable, but eternal torture? No, I think hell is just a more intense purgatory. Painful, but only temporary. If we are to be forgiven, we will be removed from hell eventually. Anyone out thetre agree?

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The analogy I've been taught is to view God as light, and sin as darkness; regardless of the light's opinion or intentions towards darkness, the darkness simply can't exist when the light is present. Regardless of how "strict" (a human characteristic?) God is, sin and God are mutually exclusive; if you are enslaved by sin, you can't be near God. To those of us who are Christians, that means the sin in our lives prevents contentment, peace, effectiveness, etc.

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So how do you define sin?

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"Sin" is any thought, word, or deed that offends a GOD.

In the case of the god of the Christians -- that means damn near everything!

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Seeker,

[quote]According to all four (accepted) gospels, Jesus tells the rich man that to be perfect he must sell everything for the poor and follow him. Ordained people have no possessions, but apart from that this seems to be ignored - most Christians have many 'luxuries' and think nothing of it. Is there a deeper meaning to all this or are we just ignoring it because we don't like it?[/quote]I do think this scripture is followed by some people without knowing. If you think about the people who go out on missions into the world, they usually have only the rudimentary items to sustain. And people who join peace corps go into the world with usually their clothes and a toothbrush.
The scripture in Matt 16:16-24; the young man originally asks Jesus , "behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?" Jesus: told the young man to follow the commandments. And the young man said that he had followed the commandments from his youth, what more must I do? Jesus: if you want to be perfect sell all you have and give to the poor."
But read this next testimony of Jesus...
And Luke 22:35-36 "[quote]And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him SELL his garment, and buy one."[/quote] So when Jesus began to send his apostles out into the communities to preach and teach he did instruct them to take with them what they needed

Slomichizza, You sound like you were raised Catholic. [purgatory]
You wrote:
[quote]"God loves you, is kind and all-forgiving. If so, why does he throw you into a flaming pit for eternity."[/quote]
People who make a conscious decision to deny God bring the wrath of God upon themselves. God is patient, longsuffering and kind, full of mercy. Every chance is given , The Holy Spirit talks to people with wisdom from above, including loving kindness, telling a person to worship God. But God is not sin and many people love their sin more and they don't want to give it up. Since God is perfect it becomes necessary to seperate the wicked because they cannot inherit a righteous kingdom that God sets up for the righteous.
Jude 1: 15-16, tells a good example of how simple it is regarding sinners and what their destiny is if they refuse to turn to God. 14 "Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage."
Catholics have been taught Purgatory is a place where the dead go. The Bible states that the dead know nothing.
But Hell is a burning place also called sheol. Sinners are cast into Hell in a spiritual form {personal idea} {that they continually burn up again and again.} There is no one good in hell, so it lacks compassion and love. There is only wickedness because those in hell practiced their wickedness too long and did not want to give it up and now they are stuck with it and with others just like them.

Quote:

"But now have they both seen and heard but hated both me and my Father. "

[/color] This is talking about a conscious decision to reject God. Some people do not want to be with God.< Shocked

>

There is no scripture backing up what you asked:

Quote:

"If we are to be forgiven, we will be removed from hell eventually."

Once a person is cast into Hell there is no reversal of condemnation. That is why the Bible states God is longsuffering and merciful, judging with righteousness and MERCY. He desires that none should perish, but that all should have eternal life. Jesus even prayed one day, [quote]"And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this SIN to their charge"-Acts 7:60
"There is a SIN unto death." 1 John 5:16
"All unrighteousness is SIN: and there is a SIN not unto death." -1 John 5:17[/quote]
Seeker,

Quote:

How do you define sin?

[/color]

1 it is an unrighteous act,
2 the unrighteous act seperates us from God.

Sin can start out as an idea and turn into enslavement.
"for whatsoever is not of faith is SIN."-Romans 14:23
A righteous act is following the Holy Spirit and producting good fruits/good works through Faith.

An unrighteous act is selfish , or hurtful, lustful, desires of the flesh. Inconsiderate, gossiping, backbiting, slandering, and the breaking of any of the 10 commandments.

Quote:

Romans3:20, " Therefore by the deeds of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of SIN. "

For the Faithful who believe Jesus died for all sin, to bring us back into the Holy presence of God....

Quote:

Romans 6:14, "14 For SIN shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."

[/color]
But a person cannot continue in sin. Because a born again faithful believer will produce good fruits in the flesh and in the spirit. Gods word does not go forth without producing good fruits. Each of us yield ourselves to either be a servant of SIN unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Quote:

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth SIN: and SIN, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. -James 1:13-15

[/color]

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Anyone who wants to love, honor, revere, adore ir worship a god that would consider it appropriate to punish someone by condemning that person to an ETERNITY of unending, EXCRUCIATING TORTURE...

...is certainly free to do so.

But I find the notion absurd -- and as far as I am concerned, anyone who thinkS GOD (if there is a GOD) is like that...

...is insulting the GOD more than anything any agnostic or atheist ever says about the gods.

This religion nonsense is so phony, it really is embarrassing to have to contend with it.

But fear of the unknown does weird things to people. So does superstition.

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So everyone agrees that sin is an evil act that separates you from God...

If you could do something kind and you choose not to, is that a sin? Or is it simply not excelling at God's work?

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Seeker wrote:

So everyone agrees that sin is an evil act that separates you from God...

We do??? When did that happen?

Quote:

If you could do something kind and you choose not to, is that a sin? Or is it simply not excelling at God's work?

Huh???

Let me ask you this: Would your god consider "not doing something kind even though you could" -- an offense against him, her, or it?

If the answer is YES -- then it would be a sin for you.

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OK, not everyone. All the people who answered my question said something along those lines. Cool

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Seeker,

Quote:

If you could do something kind and you choose not to, is that a sin? Or is it simply not excelling at God's work?

I do believe that it would not be a sin. The HS will prompt us to do kind acts. Kindness Very Happy

is a fruit of the spirit. A spirit of non-concern, as to the welfare of someone else, is not of God.
I have felt prompted to do an act of kindness for someone. And it was such a strong prompt that there was little thought left for debate. This kind of compulsion can hardly be ignored. But it is important to start to exercise the fruits of the spirit.

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What about repentance?

How 'should' you repent, if you can use that term at all? People say God is all forgiving. Some people think that just means you can say sorry and that's it, and some peopl still agonize over what they've done wrong. Confused

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Seeker,

Repentence is understanding that you have done something wrong / sin , and try to never do it again.

How should you repent? With humility.

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yes....God has rules but it is your choice to follow them or not. And I am refering to the God the Lord from the King James Bible!!!!!!
I can assure you that an agnostic is not the one to ask on this subject with this particular God!!!! They don't know the rules can't comprehend them and therefore can't begin to follow them not because they can't but because their ignorance allows them to refuse to follow these "rules".

Fact is we all die.
Fact is there is a supreme being in control of all of us.
Fact is our life on earth is not forever and there is a reason for that.
So no matter what "rules" you follow just make sure they are the rules you want to follow.
And as contradictory as it may seem to many...
Let God be the judge on how well you followed "the rules".

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lost_my_calgon wrote:

yes....God has rules but it is your choice to follow them or not. And I am refering to the God the Lord from the King James Bible!!!!!!

Ah...that god. The one that said:

Quote:

"I, the Lord, your God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishments
for their fathers' wickedness on the children of those who hate
me, down to the third and fourth generation." Deuteronomy 5:9

I know that god! Bit of a stinker, that one.

Quote:

I can assure you that an agnostic is not the one to ask on this subject with this particular God!!!! They don't know the rules can't comprehend them and therefore can't begin to follow them not because they can't but because their ignorance allows them to refuse to follow these "rules".

And they are not deluded -- so how can anyone expect them to speak delusionally.

Quote:

Fact is we all die.

That seems to be the case.

Quote:

Fact is there is a supreme being in control of all of us.

I think that is a bad -- and unnecessary guess.

Quote:

Fact is our life on earth is not forever and there is a reason for that. So no matter what "rules" you follow just make sure they are the rules you want to follow. And as contradictory as it may seem to many...
Let God be the judge on how well you followed "the rules".

Well that's just plain silly -- but you seem agitated -- and when a person is agitated, it is easy for them to say silly things.

Calm down -- and just share what you have to share. We all want to hear it.

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lost_my_calgon wrote:

yes....God has rules but it is your choice to follow them or not. And I am refering to the God the Lord from the King James Bible!!!!!!
I can assure you that an agnostic is not the one to ask on this subject with this particular God!!!! They don't know the rules can't comprehend them and therefore can't begin to follow them not because they can't but because their ignorance allows them to refuse to follow these "rules".

Fact is we all die.
Fact is there is a supreme being in control of all of us.
Fact is our life on earth is not forever and there is a reason for that.
So no matter what "rules" you follow just make sure they are the rules you want to follow.
And as contradictory as it may seem to many...
Let God be the judge on how well you followed "the rules".

Lost,
Now that we have a point of reference we can better understand "the rules" that you are speaking of. Would you define your god as kind and loving or as a raving murderous barbarian?

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I never lived in the times of the OT. The Jewish or Old Hebrews who lived and felt their deliverance by God have testified in the Torah that it was a real struggle to bring forth his people.

Most people think that "to believe in the divine you must take it on faith." In the Bible, especially in the Old Testament, God had proved Himself through History. Those who followed His Word would be blessed and those who didn't would face the disasters and misfortune. History is the best way to prove the existance of God, not just faith. For the ancient Jews who went through the literal deliverance of their people, for some, just like today, they believe it was God and others disbelieve. But the Jewish faith and belief in the Torah and its' accounts detailing their deliverance and their growth as a nation, as knowing the Living God who does deliver.
There is a great deal of anti-faith table pounding . The reality of one may not be the reality of another. Peace Smile

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Ruach wrote:

I never lived in the times of the OT. The Jewish or Old Hebrews who lived and felt their deliverance by God have testified in the Torah that it was a real struggle to bring forth his people.

Most people think that "to believe in the divine you must take it on faith." In the Bible, especially in the Old Testament, God had proved Himself through History. Those who followed His Word would be blessed and those who didn't would face the disasters and misfortune. History is the best way to prove the existance of God, not just faith. For the ancient Jews who went through the literal deliverance of their people, for some, just like today, they believe it was God and others disbelieve. But the Jewish faith and belief in the Torah and its' accounts detailing their deliverance and their growth as a nation, as knowing the Living God who does deliver.
There is a great deal of anti-faith table pounding . The reality of one may not be the reality of another. Peace

Rauch -- you are doing the typical theistic tango here.

This happened in the past -- and the only way it could have happened is for some GOD to have made it happen.

You have absolutely no way of know how the Jewish situtation would have turned out if a few ancient Jews had not invented that god.

Without the god -- the Jews might have fared much, much better.

But -- without the god -- the history of the Jews might have been virtually identical.

You don't know -- and simply asserting that because things happen one can presume the existence of a GOD is absurd.

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I don't think God is that strict. I think that when we hurt people it hurts him, so we ought to says sorry and try to make it right

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God vs Evolution/science -----

God has 10 commandments. All are quite reasonable on the whole. OK, the whole God Trip is an act of faith. I think when God decides than the human race has screwed up the whole planet & calls in the bills & reads the rap sheet, a lot of bad people will be blown away.

Evolution/science has millions of theories, many of which have loopholes & are highly massaged to suit a particular purpose. The whole Ev/Sci trip is an act of spin doctoring. When we screw up the whole planet & we are going the wrong way up a box canyon, ask the Ev/Sci guys to go back & see if they remembered to fit a reverse gear.

I think God gets it cos he's better on discipline & wins by 2 pin falls to 1 submission.

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Rauch's quote, "Those who followed His Word would be blessed and those who didn't would face the disasters and misfortune." Ignoring the history of biblical times, I wonder what happened to the followers of the faith that died the same as everybody else during natural disasters? Why weren't they plucked out from those disasters to live longer? What that tells this observer is that the biblical history is full of sh*t.

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How strict is God?

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