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Do you sin against God or man?

 
 
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2011 12:49 pm
Do you sin against God or man?

I saw this video and did not agree with it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKwWZ2no8tk&feature=channel_page

If I sin, I think I sin against another human. Not against God. Against his law of course, or to be more specific, against the laws that men have attributed to God, but not against God.

This clip ignores the human victim altogether as if the victim has no right to feel offended and also have no responsibility to forgive the offender.

I find it rather droll that we are supposed to see God as the victim of all our sins.

If you were to visualize, for instance, God being the victim of all Gay sins, well you see what I mean.
Rather a startling picture right?

Sin also brings up the topic of forgiveness.

If you or I forgive a sin done against us, is there any reason for the sinner to kowtow to God for more forgiveness?

The sin, once forgiven by you or I is, well, forgiven. What exactly is God forgiving. The sin has been annulled by our forgiveness so God forgiving it is rather superfluous and in reality, if at the pearly gates, God were to seek to punish a forgiven sin then one could make a case that God is unjust.

Is God sticking his nose where it is not required in the case of saying we sin against him and in our seeking forgiveness for a forgiven sin?

Regards
DL
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Type: Question • Score: 0 • Views: 2,381 • Replies: 13

 
DrDick
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2011 03:36 pm
@Greatest I am,
I don't think God is sticking his nose where it is not required. What I take from the video is the organization CARM is trying to use an if a = b and b = c then a = c kind of logic to recruit people to believe in christ. I don't think CARM presents a very good argument. I think your logic that if you forgive the sin, then the sin should also be forgiven in the eyes of God would be supported by most people.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  4  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2011 04:02 pm
Define sin!
Smileyrius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2011 04:20 pm
@Greatest I am,
Sin begets death, however God can forgive sin, man can't. simple.

DrDick
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2011 11:06 pm
@Smileyrius,
I don't think it is that simple. My nephew steals or lies to me, yet I forgive those sins. But you are stating that it is not my choice, but Gods choice. So my nephew is judged by God and could go against me. And according to the video he would go against my forgiveness of my nephew if my nephew has not accepted christ. So my nephew can be truly sorry for hurting his uncle, his uncle could forgive, yet because my nephew has not accepted christ according to the video God will go against me. Why as an uncle that loves his nephew would I support that God? I don't care if my nephew accepts christ, I care if my nephew is a good person that is sorry for his sins. To state my nephew MUST love christ, because christ died for his sins doesn't make any sense. My nephew nor I asked christ to die for our sins, we were not alive when that decision was made.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Jan, 2011 08:59 am
@Smileyrius,
As far as I can tell, people who never sin still die.
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Jan, 2011 10:39 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

As far as I can tell, people who never sin still die.



Only naturally
DrDick
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Jan, 2011 11:08 am
@Intrepid,
What is "naturally"? Via a slow cancer or is that only for those that sin?
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Jan, 2011 11:23 am
@DrDick,
DrDick wrote:

What is "naturally"? Via a slow cancer or is that only for those that sin?


They say there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers. This is a stupid question.
chaz wyman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Jan, 2011 12:35 pm
@Greatest I am,
If you think there is such a thing as sin, then you have to swallow the God stuff and look into the bible to find out what it is, for advice on how to behave.
If, on the other hand, you are able to see the Bible and God as human inventions then you are free to understand that moral law is based on ethical principles and can change from age to age and culture to culture.
Thankfully this will also mean that we no longer have to stone adulteresses to death, or sacrifice out lifesstock.
0 Replies
 
DrDick
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Jan, 2011 04:17 pm
@Intrepid,
Really? You state those without sin die "only naturally" and then defend that position through insult? You think that strengthens your position?
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2011 10:07 am
@CalamityJane,
CalamityJane wrote:

Define sin!
A crime is an injury to another, and a sin is an injury to self...
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2011 10:39 am
@Greatest I am,
You ask some great questions but to be honest I don't think any of the reasoning or answers will ever come about because the christian theology is convoluted in nature.

Just to start at the very beginning, why is something considered a sin against god to begin with? Isn't that absurd just from the very get go? Shouldn't a god realize that if it makes a being that is capable of doing what ever it wants, that there is always going to be a portion of them that will always do something that you might not want them to do? It's statistics at it's most basic level yet Christians never consider this position.

So the question becomes, why create a being if you know no matter what you do, say or threaten they will never follow what you want them to follow. In other words you are creating a being who is already destined to be tortured for the rest of eternity. How can you settle that in your god mind as being rational unless you don't care?

Religion was invented to give more power to tribal laws. Because you can't object to a rule if it was handed to you by a god. Early tribal leaders understood that if they told their subjects that they are the basis for why these rules exist, then there will be at some point, a member who would challenge the leader for those rules. But a clever leader would pull themselves out of the spot light and claim a god handed them down these rules. So now those same rules get followed and they can't be challenged and if anyone tries to challenge them, you can just threaten them with eternal torment.

If you think I am making it up, just look at the story of the ten commandments. Christians actually believe that a guy went up to the top of a mountain and had a conversation with a god who struck some stones with lightning or what ever to give the people the rules to follow. Seriously? A guy goes up a mountain and talks to god then comes back a few minutes later with some tablets in his hands? Honestly? Then on top of that he destroys them when he sees the people worshiping a bull. It is tribalism.

The whole idea of sin is convoluted and why anyone actually buys the concept as being real baffles me.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  2  
Reply Fri 28 Jan, 2011 08:52 pm
Regarding common usage, when we violate the demands of our human societies there is CRIME; when we violate the demands of spiritual forces and beings, there is SIN; when we violate the demands of nature, there is IGNORANCE.
0 Replies
 
 

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