12
   

Are poor thieves innocent ?

 
 
Reply Fri 21 Jan, 2011 11:24 am
If a very poor housemaid stole just 100 $ from the wealthy family she works for , should people punish her and send her to jail ?
 
Ragman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 21 Jan, 2011 11:59 am
@permoda12345,
The bottom line is that stealing is a crime. Why should the fact that she is poor excuse her from observing the law? Should she be allowed to steal from the rich or anyone JUST because she is poor?
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jan, 2011 12:03 pm
@permoda12345,
This is a version of the famed Heinz dilemma. Lawrence Kohlberg was a researcher who studied the way people reason about morality. He developed a set of stages of "moral development" based on how people deal with these types of questions.

Ragman answered on Kohlberg stage four.

This was one of the most interesting topics to me in psychology.


0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Fri 21 Jan, 2011 12:06 pm
Would I send someone to jail for $100, no.
Would I fire them, hell yes.
permoda12345
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jan, 2011 12:36 pm
@Ceili,
so this thief would steal 1000$ next time !
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jan, 2011 01:18 pm
@permoda12345,
"Laws" necessarily need to be written in disambiguous terms, but context tends to temper "justice". No doubt arguments regarding the latter can range anywhere from the biblical "Thou shall not steal" to Marx "Property is Theft".
Ceili
 
  3  
Reply Fri 21 Jan, 2011 01:24 pm
@permoda12345,
Well you could look at that way or you could see it as a trade or balance.
I could call the police, wait for them, press charges, they could haul the offender off before a judge and then to jail. Now the crime of a measly $100 has grown exponentially, it involves countless people and hours of time. Is it worth it?
But if I fire the maid, I've lost 100 bucks and the guarantee of no letters of recommendation.
For a thousand I might go through the rigamarole. For 10 000, you can count on it.
permoda12345
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jan, 2011 01:31 pm
@Ceili,
so this poor thief would jump into your house the next night to steal another $100.
coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jan, 2011 01:39 pm
The Jean Valjean syndrome eh? We can discrimminate, for instance, between shoplifting and kleptomania. Shoplifting defines stealing for need, satisfying physical needs like Jean Valjean stealing a loaf of bread. Kleptomania fills a psychological need, like Winona Ryder stealing clothes when she is wealthy. Shoplifting is a legal term, but kleptomania is a term used in clinical psychology.

This does nothing but confuse even further the issue, but there it is.
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Fri 21 Jan, 2011 01:39 pm
@permoda12345,
Nope, I've already fired 'em. I'll let that be your problem. K..
0 Replies
 
thack45
 
  2  
Reply Fri 21 Jan, 2011 03:43 pm
@permoda12345,
Who is this that leaves 100's and 1000's of dollars around to be stollen anyway?
permoda12345
 
  0  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2011 01:37 am
@thack45,
so this mean that your cowered and thieves scare you . don't collect money and have fun with safety .
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2011 02:39 am
Why is the housemaid very poor?
She has a roof over her head, three meals a day and probably a salary.
Is the salery so low that she has to steal the money - then she should look for another job.
If she has a fair salary but cannot handle her money and steals $100 dollars I would fire her.
If she is a very good housemaid I would have a serious talk with her why she stole the $100 and if there was a very good reason for what she did I might keep her and deduct the 100 from her salary.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2011 08:55 am
@saab,
Quote:
She has a roof over her head, three meals a day and probably a salary.
Is the salery so low that she has to steal the money - then she should look for another job.
If she has a fair salary but cannot handle her money and steals $100 dollars I would fire her.
If she is a very good housemaid I would have a serious talk with her why she stole the $100 and if there was a very good reason for what she did I might keep her and deduct the 100 from her salary.


You are adding an awful lot to the story, saab.

The story doesn't say if her boss is fair or cruel. The story didn't say how much the maid is paid. The story doesn't say if she can afford a place to live or if she and her family has to live on the street. The story doesn't say if her salary is fair. The story doesn't say if other jobs are available.

There are certainly situations where maids live in impossibly desperate situations where they are unable to change jobs. There are real modern stories of wealthy countries hiring maids from poor countries and then mistreating them, particularly after the economy went bad.

The interesting question is whether these questions matter?

If the boss was unjust and cruel, the maid was vulnerable with no options, and her family lived in the street, would that change your view of the situation?


saab
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2011 09:31 am
@maxdancona,
If the boss was unjust and cruel, the maid was vulnerable with no options, and her family lived in the street, would that change your view of the situation?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes it would change my view of the situation.
But I want two sides of a story to be able to judge it.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2011 09:34 am
@permoda12345,
permoda12345 wrote:
If a very poor housemaid stole just 100 $ from the wealthy family she works for , should people punish her and send her to jail ?
If thay wanna
0 Replies
 
TuringEquivalent
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2011 09:50 am
@permoda12345,
permoda12345 wrote:

If a very poor housemaid stole just 100 $ from the wealthy family she works for , should people punish her and send her to jail ?


Heinz should steal the medicine, because saving a human life is a more fundamental value than the property rights of another person.

the principles of justice require us to treat the claims of all parties in an impartial manner, respecting the basic dignity, of all people as individuals. The principles of justice are therefore universal; they apply to all. Thus, for example, we would not vote for a law that aids some people but hurts others. The principles of justice guide us toward decisions based on an equal respect for all.

http://faculty.plts.edu/gpence/html/kohlberg.htm
permoda12345
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2011 12:32 am
@TuringEquivalent,
thanks .
0 Replies
 
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2011 12:43 am
@permoda12345,
permoda12345 wrote:

If a very poor housemaid stole just 100 $ from the wealthy family she works for , should people punish her and send her to jail ?


What would that have to do with her innocence? You just pointed out that she did what she was accused of doing. The question you are asking is not whether she is innocent. You have already said she is not. You are asking what sort of penalty is appropriate for what she did,
0 Replies
 
wayne
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2011 12:44 am
@permoda12345,
permoda12345 wrote:

so this poor thief would jump into your house the next night to steal another $100.


So there ya have it. Thief is the operative word here, poor is just an adjective.

They should chain her up in the basement, feed her salmon patties and ramen noodles, force her to watch law and order reruns for 6 months, then put her in a crate addressed to USAS Mcmurdo sound.
0 Replies
 
 

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