Are poor thieves innocent ?

@permoda12345,

permoda12345 wrote:

If a very poor housemaid stole just 100 $ from the wealthy family she works for , should people punish her and send her to jail ?

Is survival a crime?

0 Replies

What if the property that was stolen was initially stolen by those who now "owned it"?

1 Reply

@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

What if the property that was stolen
was initially stolen by those who now "owned it"?

The law of property is that the thief
has better title than anyone except the owner himself.

This is subject to statutory variation
among the different jurisdictions.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Well, some say the law of property wasn't really formed until some mighty bastards had stolen most things and were afraid to have them taken from them again.

No one fears to have their property stolen as much as thieves do. No one believes in it stronger that someone will try to steal from them, that those who will steal given half the chance.

This society obsessed with ownership leads me to believe that it was founded by thieves...

1 Reply

@permoda12345,

"If a very poor housemaid stole just 100 $ from the wealthy family she works for , should people punish her and send her to jail ?"

"should people punish her and send her to jail?"

Yes of course she should be held responsible but should she deserve jail time? Maybe that is a bit too harsh but she shouldn't be allowed to take from someone just because they are richer than her or that she is poorer than them. If we allowed such a case then millions of poor people would be constantly stealing from the wealthy. How is that fair? It's not. Are the wealthy always deserving of their wealth? Maybe not in all cases but they more than likely earned their position so they shouldn't have it taken away because someone isn't as lucky.

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@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

Well, some say the law of property wasn't really formed until some mighty bastards
had stolen most things and were afraid to have them taken from them again.

Some say that the Earth is flat and the Moon landing was a fraud.
Anyone can say anything, whether he believes it or not.

Cyracuz wrote:

No one fears to have their property stolen as much as thieves do.

I have no evidence on that point.
I 'm not aware of any studies,
nor how u reached that conclusion.
Did u ask around, comparing thieves and non-thieves??

Cyracuz wrote:

No one believes in it stronger that someone will try to steal from them,
that those who will steal given half the chance.

I guess that has been PROVEN
to your satisfaction.

I dropped a few $$ into the open bag
of a beggar sleeping at the side of the street.
He awoke very alarmed, recoiling and clutching
his property, as tho I were stealing it.
I suspect that HE believed strongly that his property woud be stolen (a beggar, not a thief).
ANYONE who reads the newspapers KNOWS
for a fact that crime is rife; it has been thru
all recorded time; NO surprize.

When I was 11, against my better judgment,
I allowed myself to be persuaded to leave my property
exposed to theft by some 13 year olds of my acquaintance.
Predictably: it was stolen and consumed.
That was a very VALUABLE lesson
not to trust anyone with more than u r willing to lose.

Cyracuz wrote:

This society obsessed with ownership
leads me to believe that it was founded by thieves...

American history is not a matter of speculation.
We know what happened.
I don't see it as thievery; that is not my opinion of it.

Addressing your concept of being "obsessed with ownership"
lemme say this:
possession of both real property (land and its appurtenances)
as well as personal property (e.g., good cars & giant HDTVs, plenty of cash)
can provide fun, and pleasure; thay make life worth living.

Possessing plenty of good property
is better than not having it.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

I guess that has been PROVEN
to your satisfaction.

It's just a consideration, not something I have thought long and hard on. Thieves think like thieves, beggars think like beggars.

For the rest, I have no objections. As you say, anyone can say anything.

1 Reply

@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

Quote:
I guess that has been PROVEN
to your satisfaction.

It's just a consideration, not something I have thought long and hard on.
Thieves think like thieves, beggars think like beggars.

For the rest, I have no objections.

As you say, anyone can say anything.

When I was a trial lawyer,
representing a defendant,
I always brought that out during jury selection.

David

0 Replies

@fresco,

fresco wrote:

"Laws" necessarily need to be written in disambiguous terms, but context tends to temper "justice". No doubt arguments regarding the latter can range anywhere from the biblical "Thou shall not steal" to Marx "Property is Theft".

Marx didn't say that. It was Proudhon.

1 Reply

@joefromchicago,

Thanks.

0 Replies

@permoda12345,

permoda12345 wrote:

If a very poor housemaid stole just 100 $ from the wealthy family she works for , should people punish her and send her to jail ?

Actually, as the story stands, the real issue here is a violation of trust. The maid has bitten the hand that feeds her. Historically, the maid should be ostracized. Made to wear the scarlet letter.

1 Reply

@wayne,

wayne wrote:

permoda12345 wrote:

If a very poor housemaid stole just 100 $ from the wealthy family she works for , should people punish her and send her to jail ?

Actually, as the story stands, the real issue here is a violation of trust. The maid has bitten the hand that feeds her. Historically, the maid should be ostracized. Made to wear the scarlet letter.

Trust is only incidental.
Its a violation of property.

A friend of mine had that happen to her.
She was very distraught.
She wanted her property back.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Obviously the maid placed little value in trust and honor either.
The property is incidental, easily replaced.

1 Reply

@thack45,

thack45 wrote:

Who is this that leaves 100's and 1000's of dollars around to be stollen anyway?

I have that problem! Too many 100 dollar bills and no place to put them! Why does God forsake me so! Confused

0 Replies

@permoda12345,

What is her motivation? Just because she is poor doesn't mean she has the right to make someone else poor

0 Replies

@wayne,

wayne wrote:

Obviously the maid placed little value in trust and honor either.
The property is incidental, easily replaced.

That 's not how my friend described it.
She was distraught; said it was heavy old gold jewelry,
with rubies and of great sentimental value,
qua its provenance.

David

2 Replies

It is about trust. We don't know why she took $100 rather than, say, some food from the fridge. Now, if I noticed food missing from my fridge or pantry I would want to talk with the maid to determine the root of the problem. If I noticed $100 missing it would be more of a trust issue for me because I don't know why she wants or needs the $100.

A habit I've made for many years is when people on the street ask me for cash I offer them food (like if they are outside or near a grocery store). After offering food to literally dozens of people I've only had a few take me up on it. Most rudely shoo me away when I offer food instead of cash. That says something.

Just because a person is poor it doesn't mean they "need" to steal cash. If a person is employable that person probably has the where with all to go to seek assistance legally from the county or a church or Salvation Army...

I don't buy that poverty is justification for theft. During the Reagan years I was dirt poor. I got my butt out in the community and offered others help, and thus I received help in return.

0 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

It is indeed sad when trust fails, resulting in the loss of valued property.
Of course, then, one must rely upon justice.
Your friend apparently made a grievous error, in her trust of the maid. I would suppose she wishes to have that decision over again.

1 Reply

@wayne,

wayne wrote:

It is indeed sad when trust fails, resulting in the loss of valued property.
Of course, then, one must rely upon justice.
Your friend apparently made a grievous error, in her trust of the maid.
I would suppose she wishes to have that decision over again.

Trusting is a grievous error and it shoud be kept to a minimum.

When I was 11, I learned that I shoud not trust
anyone with more than I am willing to lose.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

That is undeniably true.
I cannot, however, fail to be saddened by this.
While reading Band of Brothers, I was angered to read that the 101st returned to England to find their lockers rifled and their effects stolen. By fellow soldiers no less.
Justice is often all we have, it cannot, however, replace human decency.

1 Reply

Are poor thieves innocent ?

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