If Christians were treated like Muslims.

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Depends,

Do you count the political assassinations committed by Christians as terrorism?

Will u be LESS vague???????
so I 'll know which ones u r asking about ?

@OmSigDAVID,

You don't keep up with the news very much, do you.

Micheael Griffin, Paul Hill and Peter James Knight for example, google them if you don't know who they are. Then tell me if these are terrorists.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

You don't keep up with the news very much, do you.

below the belt, off-topic remark

I can 't read your mind qua WHICH
u had in mind.

maxdancona wrote:

Micheael Griffin, Paul Hill and Peter James Knight for example,
google them if you don't know who they are.
Then tell me if these are terrorists.

Thay were.
Thay shoud be treated like ordinary murderers.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

Thay were.
Thay shoud be treated like ordinary murderers.

Ordinary murderers or terrorists?

My point is that for many people, if a Christian kills people they are an "ordinary murderer" where if a Muslim did the exact same thing they would be a "terrorist".

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Quote:

Thay were.
Thay shoud be treated like ordinary murderers.

maxdancona wrote:

Ordinary murderers or terrorists?

BOTH.

maxdancona wrote:

My point is that for many people, if a Christian kills people they are an "ordinary murderer" where if a Muslim did the exact same thing they would be a "terrorist".

Thay probably did it to spread terror
in the medical community, to dissuade further abortions.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

I don't have a problem with this David. If you are willing to accept that Christian extremists are just as bad a Muslim extremists then great. There isn't much to discuss then.

Christians being treated like Muslims is the whole premise of this thread. My point is that in general society, this isn't the case.

People remember 9/11 and forget Oklahoma city.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

I don't have a problem with this David.
If you are willing to accept that Christian extremists
are just as bad a Muslim extremists then great.

It depends on what either of them DO.

maxdancona wrote:

There isn't much to discuss then.

Christians being treated like Muslims is the whole premise of this thread.
My point is that in general society, this isn't the case.

People remember 9/11 and forget Oklahoma city.

On 9/11/1, the Moslems attacked the WTC because thay were Moslems
and for Moslem religious reasons, in support of theocracy.

Tim McV. did not attack anyone for religious reasons.
I have no hint of his religious opinions.

His attack was directed against the federal government A.T.F.,
in retribution for its atrocities at Waco, Texas; maybe for Ruby Ridge.

He had bad aim, and hit many innocent non-federal employees.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

His attack was directed against the federal government A.T.F.,
in retribution for its atrocities at Waco, Texas; maybe for Ruby Ridge.

He had bad aim, and hit many innocent non-federal employees.

WHAT?!?!

Are you saying that McVeighs murder of thousands of people would have been alright if he only killed innocent federal employees? I hope you don't mean that, because that is pretty sick. Mass murder is mass murder.

I don't know if the 9/11 terrorists did it because they were Muslims. There are lots of politics behind Al Qaeda. I don't know if McVeigh would have murdered so many people if he weren't a Christian.

They both found reasons to attack America that killed lots of Americans. I don't see why it matters what their sick reasons were.

1 Reply

This article at Ethics Daily, a website about christian values (i.e., a christian website), asserts that McVeigh was a christian, and an adherent of Christian Identity, a white supremecist organization dedicated to the establishment of a christian theocracy. One can, of course, form one's own opinion of the matter.

Al Qaeda is a Wahabi (also spelled Wahhabi) organization. It is simple-minded and uninformed to identify all Muslims as identical, and professing the same beliefs. Wahabis call themselves Salafi, which is to say, followers of the forefathers of Islam. Others call them Wahabi because the movement was founded by Mohammed Ibn Abd Al-Wahhab, an Islamic reformer in the 18th century. You can click here to read about Wahabis at Global Security dot org. Claiming that all Muslims are indential in their beliefs and practices is as stupid as saying that all Christians are identical in their beliefs and practices. Sunnis and Shi'ites, for example, are as different as Catholics and Protestants--in fact, the divide between Sunnis and Shi'ites is greater than that between Catholics and Protestants. There are many, many varieties of Sunnis, and of Shi'ites. The Wahabis are fundamentalist, extreme Sunnis. The extremists of Iran, however, are twelver Shi'ites (there are several distinct sects among the Shi'ites, just as you find in any major version of any religion). Don't make the mistake of lumping all Muslims together.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

Quote:

His attack was directed against the federal government A.T.F.,
in retribution for its atrocities at Waco, Texas; maybe for Ruby Ridge.

He had bad aim, and hit many innocent non-federal employees.

maxdancona wrote:

WHAT?!?!

Are you saying that McVeighs murder of thousands of people

WHATAYAMEAN???? It was 168!!??
Don 't u CARE whether u write the truth or not ?????

maxdancona wrote:

would have been alright if he only killed innocent federal employees?

Well, it woud have been morally OK
if he avenged the Ruby Ridge and Waco atrocities upon the A.T.F.
It got away with the murders of 14 year old Sam Weaver
(shot in the back after it blasted his arm off from behind, by A.T.F. sniper)
and his mom while she held her infant in her arms, in the front door of her home.
The A.T.F. remained unpunished for its atrocities upon American citizens,
and that was not fair, not just, not moral.

maxdancona wrote:

I hope you don't mean that, because that is pretty sick.
Mass murder is mass murder.

Vengeance is honorable.
If the A.T.F. shot me in the back and got away with it,
I 'd be delighted if someone avenged me.

maxdancona wrote:

I don't know if the 9/11 terrorists did it because they were Muslims.

U think thay had a DIFFERENT reason ???
Tell us what it was !
Inquiring minds wanna know.

maxdancona wrote:

There are lots of politics behind Al Qaeda.

EVERYWHERE, behind EVERYTHING; so what ???

maxdancona wrote:

I don't know if McVeigh would have murdered so many people if he weren't a Christian.

Your ignorance does not justify nor explain anything.
What did Tim tell u about Jesus ??
Did Tim tell u his religious beliefs ?
I don 't think he did.

maxdancona wrote:

They both found reasons to attack America that killed lots of Americans.
I don't see why it matters what their sick reasons were.

Your failures of perception change nothing.
The Moslems' reasons define the enemy.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

As a supporter of laissez faire capitalism,
a libertarian-Individualist, I oppose all forms of socialism,
including nazism.

To oppose racial profiling or cultural profiling
is to oppose sound reasoning. We need to know who our enemies are.

What happened on 9/11/1 was not just a prank
and we have no reason to believe that it was
the Moslems' LAST attack on us.

Forewarned is forearmed.

David

Just as Russian Communism was State Capitalism, so was Fascism Industrial Feudalism... Nationalism and Socialism were the two driving ideologies of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries; but don't bother with how any form identifies itself as a political matter because they are as incapable of seeing themselves clearly as they are unable to speak honestly about themselves and their methods... We call ourselves a democracy too... Would any majority vote for what we have, our current situation??? We accept it, feeling we have no choice, and if we had a choice we might accept it out of fear of worse; but if we had ever had democracy, and if our democracy had not been born a cul, and then not been sabotaged by the parties, we may have done much better than we have...

Bauer is a puke, and you are an idiot to label yourself... Let others do it.. They will be glad to... You paint yourself into corners with words like individualist, and libertarian... Why not just say: I get up every morning and hang my brain on an ideology where it won't give me no more trouble by doing any serious thinking on any subject....

1 Reply

@Fido,

I 'll choose my own labels and I 'll do my own thinking. I always have.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Well David, if you think killing American Federal Employees is OK as along as you are doing it for Vengeance, then we are so far apart that it is not worth discussing. I think it would be a barbaric act even if they targeted the actual American agents involved rather then some random American government employees who had nothing to do with Ruby Ridge.

Your argument raises an interesting implication.

If the 9/11 terrorists had simply said that they were acting in retaliation for Ruby Ridge, would you then say the 9/11 terrorists are "honorable"?

It is very difficult argument you are making. But then again, you are justifying a terrorist act.

2 Replies

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Well David, if you think killing American Federal Employees is OK
as along as you are doing it for Vengeance,
then we are so far apart that it is not worth discussing.

U don 't HAVE to, if u don't want to.

maxdancona wrote:

I think it would be a barbaric act even if they targeted the actual American agents involved rather then some random American government employees who had nothing to do with Ruby Ridge.

I think it was a barbaric act to let the A.T.F. sniper go free.

maxdancona wrote:

Your argument raises an interesting implication.

If the 9/11 terrorists had simply said that they were acting in retaliation for Ruby Ridge,
would you then say the 9/11 terrorists are "honorable"?

No; the target was unrelated to Ruby Ridge.
No one in the WTC was guilty of that.

maxdancona wrote:

It is very difficult argument you are making. But then again, you are justifying a terrorist act.

Maybe, if Tim was trying to scare the A.T.F out of further atrocities upon American citizens.

I guess the Boston Tea Party was a terrorist act
(qua English tea merchants).

David

0 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

I 'll choose my own labels and I 'll do my own thinking. I always have.

David

You identify yourself with certain ideologies like Individualism and Libertarianism; and your thinking is clearly out of the box... What sort of proof do you have for being your own man???

Mind you; I am not suggesting that all you say is wrong; but neither did everything the Nazi's say ring false... I had the local Libertarians trying to recruit me for a while because I shared a few of their beliefs, but I cannot get over the idea that if parties are the problem, that parties are not the solution...

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Well David, if you think killing American Federal Employees is OK as along as you are doing it for Vengeance, then we are so far apart that it is not worth discussing. I think it would be a barbaric act even if they targeted the actual American agents involved rather then some random American government employees who had nothing to do with Ruby Ridge.

Your argument raises an interesting implication.

If the 9/11 terrorists had simply said that they were acting in retaliation for Ruby Ridge, would you then say the 9/11 terrorists are "honorable"?

It is very difficult argument you are making. But then again, you are justifying a terrorist act.

I don't agree with the killing of anybody, only because it is too easy for that to degrade into the killing of everybody who might stand in your way... But our government is not our government if it so fears the people that it does not trust them with arms... I trust David with Arms... I even trusted David Koresh with arms... I do not trust my government with arms since they have so clearly misused the ones they had... The damage of a few deranged zeolots with arms is as small as the danger of them actually using them -which has proven slight... The great danger is always in the reaction of the government which is a behemoth, and not the least bit subtle in its affairs... They are like a dancing bear trying the part of a primadonna... They have something real, power and wealth, to defend while the poor zealots have little besides their principals to hide behind...

1 Reply

@Fido,

Quote:

I don't agree with the killing of anybody, only because it is too easy for that to degrade into the killing of everybody who might stand in your way... But our government is not our government if it so fears the people that it does not trust them with arms...

Huh?

We are talking about people who used hatred of the American government to justify attacking America and killing Americans.

Are you really arguing that this is somehow justified by the actions of the American government?

You are making an argument in support of terrorism.

0 Replies

@Fido,

Fido wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:

I 'll choose my own labels and I 'll do my own thinking. I always have.

David

You identify yourself with certain ideologies like Individualism and Libertarianism;
and your thinking is clearly out of the box...

What sort of proof do you have for being your own man???

I can start by not proving anything to YOU.

1 Reply

I know, from experience, that many different people
have widely differing opinions qua what thay deem to be libertarianism. I am guided by MINE.
For instance, during the 3rd World War,
many libertarians opposed military conscription.

From that, I dissented,
pointing out that was what the commie enemy 'd wish,
so that thay coud and woud enslave the world, without opposition.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Fido wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:

I 'll choose my own labels and I 'll do my own thinking. I always have.

David

You identify yourself with certain ideologies like Individualism and Libertarianism;
and your thinking is clearly out of the box...

What sort of proof do you have for being your own man???
I can start by not proving anything to YOU.

How about evidence, because, from my perspective, you are generic, and you say as much with your labels...

0 Replies

If Christians were treated like Muslims.

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