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Celebrating the life of Socrates

 
 
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 07:13 pm
Check out the snippet Friedrich Nietzsche's "The Gay Science". This is one of my favorite quotes in that it encompasses the true effect that Socrates had on his time, and still to this day. Any thoughts or interpretations?




"The dying Socrates.— I admire the courage and wisdom of Socrates in
everything he did, said—and did not say. This mocking and enamored monster and pied piper of Athens, who made the most overweening youths tremble and sob, was not only the wisest chatterer of all time: he was equally great in silence. I wish he had remained taciturn also at the last moment of his life,—in that case he might belong to a still higher order of spirits. Whether it was death or the poison or piety or malice—something loosened his tongue at that moment and he said: "Oh Crito, I owe Asclepius a rooster." [Asklepios: Greek god of medicine.] This ridiculous and terrible "last word" means for those who have ears: "Oh Crito, life is a disease." Is it possible! A man like him, who had lived cheerfully and like a soldier in the sight of everyone,—should have been a pessimist! He had merely kept a cheerful mien while concealing all his life long his ultimate judgment, his inmost feeling! Socrates, Socrates suffered life!
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Fido
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 09:58 pm
@pacino12,
His life was disease, if you judge by Plato's Republic, and many other pieces... I think it strange that the Greeks could have been so surrounded by Barbarians, and have a curiosity about other cultures, and that Socrates and Plato could have lost the meaning of their own forms of social relationship... Clearly, they were flying blind, and tried to judge the culture portrayed in the Illiad and Odysssey without even the skill of amatures, and even their own culture and their pantheon of gods, did they judge immoral, when it was they who were immoral... ....

They were demoralized, and that was their sickness, the whole lot of them, the democrats clinging blindly to a failed democracy and the oligarchs clinging to their own desire for aristocracy.... What a sorry bunch of losers only little worse than ourselves, unknowing, uncultured, and immoral...
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kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2010 10:37 pm
@pacino12,
pacino12 wrote:

Check out the snippet Friedrich Nietzsche's "The Gay Science". This is one of my favorite quotes in that it encompasses the true effect that Socrates had on his time, and still to this day. Any thoughts or interpretations?




"The dying Socrates.— I admire the courage and wisdom of Socrates in
everything he did, said—and did not say. This mocking and enamored monster and pied piper of Athens, who made the most overweening youths tremble and sob, was not only the wisest chatterer of all time: he was equally great in silence. I wish he had remained taciturn also at the last moment of his life,—in that case he might belong to a still higher order of spirits. Whether it was death or the poison or piety or malice—something loosened his tongue at that moment and he said: "Oh Crito, I owe Asclepius a rooster." [Asklepios: Greek god of medicine.] This ridiculous and terrible "last word" means for those who have ears: "Oh Crito, life is a disease." Is it possible! A man like him, who had lived cheerfully and like a soldier in the sight of everyone,—should have been a pessimist! He had merely kept a cheerful mien while concealing all his life long his ultimate judgment, his inmost feeling! Socrates, Socrates suffered life!


What he meant by life is a disease is (as Plato argues in various places) the soul is imprisoned in the body, so that while we alive, we are prevented from knowing the Good. It is only when we die, and when the soul is free of the body, and we become wholly well. Christianity has much the same view. It took it from Plato.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Dec, 2010 09:08 am
@kennethamy,
Kenny; he was pushing a baseless metaphysics that has done inestimable injury to philosophy.... What do the dead know, and what do we know about death... It is about belief, and not about knowledge... He certainly had no view of the good since he so admired Sparta... What is Good??? First define the thing and then say what fits the description... As a moral form, and an infinite, it cannot be defined; except common to all life, judging by the behavior of all, Life is good... Death is not... And yes; he helped to poison nearly a thousand years of Christianity... Good for him... Bad for humanity...
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Dec, 2010 10:47 am
@Fido,
Blame the messenger...(how naive is that ?) Rolling Eyes
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kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Dec, 2010 12:00 pm
@Fido,
Fido wrote:

Kenny; he was pushing a baseless metaphysics that has done inestimable injury to philosophy.... What do the dead know, and what do we know about death... It is about belief, and not about knowledge... He certainly had no view of the good since he so admired Sparta... What is Good??? First define the thing and then say what fits the description... As a moral form, and an infinite, it cannot be defined; except common to all life, judging by the behavior of all, Life is good... Death is not... And yes; he helped to poison nearly a thousand years of Christianity... Good for him... Bad for humanity...


What has that to do with what I wrote? I did not endorse what he said. I simply explained it.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Dec, 2010 03:59 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy wrote:

Fido wrote:

Kenny; he was pushing a baseless metaphysics that has done inestimable injury to philosophy.... What do the dead know, and what do we know about death... It is about belief, and not about knowledge... He certainly had no view of the good since he so admired Sparta... What is Good??? First define the thing and then say what fits the description... As a moral form, and an infinite, it cannot be defined; except common to all life, judging by the behavior of all, Life is good... Death is not... And yes; he helped to poison nearly a thousand years of Christianity... Good for him... Bad for humanity...


What has that to do with what I wrote? I did not endorse what he said. I simply explained it.
I didn't mean to seem to attack you... I just don't care for Socrates, though I once admired him...
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