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Isreali-Palestinian One-State Solution

 
 
yeahman
 
Reply Tue 16 Dec, 2003 09:07 pm
It's an interesting concept but I don't see how it could possibly work. Wouldn't Isreal have to legally annex the rest of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip? Creative border creation can expand Isreali territory while still excluding the majority of Palestinians. Even if the Palestinians allow Isreal to annex all their land, what are the chances of Isreal accepting?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,856 • Replies: 34
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K VEE SHANKER
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2003 10:53 am
Good Questions.
0 Replies
 
berm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2003 04:20 pm
Israel would never accept
Israel would not accept a one state solution. A one state solution would be a demographic time bomb.....in not so many years the arabs would outnumber the Jews at which point Palestine/Israel would no longer be a Jewish state

Berm
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yeahman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2003 12:41 am
One thing is clear, Israel will never accept the 1967 borders. That alone makes a 2 state solution very tough. There's the possibility of trading land. The larger settlements would go on the Israeli side and the Palestinians would take control of less populated Israeli land.

Other conditions to peace include the right of return for Palestinians. Again, Isreal would never accept this though they may possibly accept a comprimise of compensation for displaced Palestinians.

All this is of course assuming that the fighting stops.

A one-state solution seems simpler in comparison and may result in a more lasting peace than a 2-state solution. With the issue of land out of the way, I believe that Isrealis and Palestinians really can get along.
But this can only work if the Palestinian land is legally recognized as a part of Israel. Then Palestinians can fight for their right to vote. The US would have no choice but to back the Palestinians.
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K VEE SHANKER
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2003 07:24 am
ye110man wrote:
One thing is clear, Israel will never accept the 1967 borders. That alone makes a 2 state solution very tough. There's the possibility of trading land. The larger settlements would go on the Israeli side and the Palestinians would take control of less populated Israeli land.

Other conditions to peace include the right of return for Palestinians. Again, Isreal would never accept this though they may possibly accept a comprimise of compensation for displaced Palestinians.

All this is of course assuming that the fighting stops.

A one-state solution seems simpler in comparison and may result in a more lasting peace than a 2-state solution. With the issue of land out of the way, I believe that Isrealis and Palestinians really can get along.
But this can only work if the Palestinian land is legally recognized as a part of Israel. Then Palestinians can fight for their right to vote. The US would have no choice but to back the Palestinians.



Yeman you've certainly made good suggestions for both Israelites and Palestinians to think about.
0 Replies
 
berm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2003 08:05 am
Not Realistic
While in a idealistic world, a 1 state solution seems like a ok idea, history does not bode well for such a solution.

Ever since the Jewish diaspora started returning to Palestine in the late 1800's, the Arab population has been hostile to them. Its important to note that when Jews started returning to Palestine, they did not just come in and evict Palestinian Arabs from their land. The Jews bought land on which to settle; generally the sellers were ARABS (often times living in other countries).

The so-called refugee problem is the result of a hostile war started in 1948 by various Arab countries after the UN recognized Israel as a nation. The Arab countries suffered a humiliating defeat.

The current occupation of the West Bank and Gaza is the direct result of another hostile war started by Arabs in 1967 where they suffered another more humilating defeat.

Furthermore, in 1973 Arabs started another hostile war to try to destroy the state of Israel in which they suffered another defeat, although not in such a humiliating way.

History shows us that Arabs have never accepted Jews living in the state of Israel, despite it being legally recognized as a nation since 1948. While I agree that the current living conditions in the West Bank, Gaza, and refugee camps in those areas is very poor I believe that Arabs need to own up to the fact that they are largely to blame for their own current conditions since it was Arabs who have hostilely started 3 wars and each time came out the losers with worse living conditions.

Despite the current plight of Palestinian Arabs being the result of their own war mongering, they somehow want to make the world feel as if they have the moral high ground in the current peace negotiations. I see it as comparable as if Nazi Germany felt they should be able to drive the peace negotiations after World War 2. As an aside, leading Palestinians spent the years of World War 2 in Germany supporting the Nazis....its a fact.

Berm
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2003 11:26 am
There is no "solution" worthy of the name "solution."

So long as there is a state of Israel -- and any Arabs, Islamics, or Palestiniants living in the Middle East -- the situtation will be about what it is right now.

It may get much worse -- but it will not get better.
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ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2003 11:53 am
berm,

First of all, welcome to able2know.

Second of all. Your post is an example of the one-sided, extremist, idiotic blather that keeps this intolerable, bloody conflct dragging on.

Those who support this conflict all say the same things.

"It is *them* who is at fault! Our actions that result in the death of civilians and children is their fault. We are just defending ourselves. They started it."

Sharon and Hamas (and now you) are all saying the same things. Both sides are commiting barbaric actions.

There is a solution. The Israelis and Palestinians of good will need to recognize each others plight. They need to both work together to find a reasonable solution that ensures dignity, opportunity and security for all.

The solution is for people to stop cheering, excusing or advocating brutality. When you keep demonizing the one side with bigoted propaganda you support the continuation of this conflict.

Please stop!
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ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2003 11:57 am
The only one-state solution I am aware of involves kicking the Palestinians out of the occupied territory to live in other "Arab" countries.

The only other option I can think of would mean incorporating the Palestinians into Israeli society. I don't think this would be acceptable to citizens of either side.

Can someone be more specific about what you all mean by one-state solution. Are we talking about ethnic cleansing here?
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2003 02:29 pm
The real solution to the Israel/Palestine Conflict is not
offering the Palestinians even less land than had been proposed
by U.N. Resolution 181. It is the abandonment of a
religiously/ethnically bigoted, exclusivist state, and replacing
it with one completly integrating the Semitic brethren, both Arab
and Jew in Palestine.

A division of Israel into two states within a pan-Semitic
Palestine, one the state of Israel, the other the state of
Palestine with a central governing body open to and serving all
inhabitants thereof. Full citizenship would be given to the
subjugated people in the Occupied Territories, with certain legal
guarantees for all inhabitants, and a full unbiased
enfranchisment of the people therein.

Jews would have full Palestinian citizenship and rights, and
Palestinians would have full Israeli citizenship and rights.
Israel and Palestine would be states in a federation, and
Israelis and Palestinians would both be able to run for the prime
ministry of that federation. That federation should be based on
secular laws not religious--a path Israel has largely taken
already. There would be religious freedom, but no state
sponsored religions. The citizens would be allowed to worship
when and where they pleased as long as it doesn't infringe on
others' rights thereof.

In regard to the settlements and the right of return, integration
is the only workable solution.

Frankly,
I don't see an end to the terrorism and violence even if the "
road map" were to succeed. There will always be extremists on
both sides eager to shed blood. The best that can be done is to
reduce the violence through an integrated effort.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2003 03:12 pm
I have real hope for the Geneva Accords. This is the most fair and realistic agreement that has come down the pike.

There is a solution. It involves difficult sacrafices by both sides to reach peace. I think the people from the region who are supporting Geneva have got it right.

The Palestinians must give up the right of return. There is no way around this given the bloody conflict and the historical realities. When this is said and done, there must be a majority Jewish state. I would love to see the pluralistic Federation envisioned by InfraBlue, but it ain't happening in this century.

The Israelies must give up the territory conquered in 1967. This will mean removing almost all of the settlements (there can be a couple of exchanges) and giving the Palestinians authority over parts of Jerusalem.

This agreement would give Palestinians a viable state with dignity and self-determination. It would give Israel security and recognition of its right to exist as a Jewish state. Both sides would finally get what everyone says they want -- peace.

There are rational people of good will in the Middle-East who are working toward this solution. There is hope that they will prevail over those who seem to prefer hatred and violence.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2003 03:12 pm
InfraBlue
What you suggest is a pipe dream that ignores reality. It would be the same as asking the Israeli's to commit national and more than likely actual suicide.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2003 03:45 pm
What do you mean by "national and actual" suicide, au?
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yeahman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2003 04:10 pm
InfraBlue, that idea still doesn't seem to solve the border problem. Where would the state of Isreal end and the Palestinian state begin? Unless both states share the same land. 2 states sharing a common land and everybody a dual-citizen? That would be interesting. I can see jurisdiction disputes arrising though.
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yeahman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2003 04:36 pm
I found this...
http://www.one-state.org
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2003 04:41 pm
InfraBlue
Israel or a state other than Moslem in the middle east is an enigma to the nations in that region. How long do you think it would survive if the Moslems had the power to destroy it. They have threatened to push the Jews into the sea and don't think for moment that was an idle threat.
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InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Dec, 2003 12:18 pm
The threat to "push the Jews into the sea" was predicated on the Zionists' goal, and realization thereof, of the establishment of an exclusivist, chauvinist nation by, for and of European Jewry. That was the critical problem in the drive to create Israel. The immigrant Zionists were, and for the most part continue to be, utterly contemptuous of the indigenous goyim in Palestine. To be a true democracy by, for and of its people, all of its people, it must abandon the mandate to maintain a "Jewish character." That is the only way the Israel/Palestine Problem can even begin to be solved.

There are secular Arab nations in the Middle East, au.

Absolutely no one, especially the U.S. of A., would allow anyone to "push the Jews into the sea," au. Your misgivings are based on paranoia which itself is based on ill will largely initiated by the Zionists' bigoted objectives.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Dec, 2003 05:17 pm
InfraBlue
If you know anything about the history of the Jews for say at least the last 1000 years and the reason for the establishment of Israel you could not possibly believe the rubbish you wrote. That has been tried before and always ended up in pogroms, expulsions, massacres, expulsions and last but not least the holocaust. Even today just 50+ years after the holocaust virulent anti-Semitism in Europe exists. How does the saying go God helps those who help themselves.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Dec, 2003 05:28 pm
InfraBlue
I should also note that well over a million Jews that came to Israel after it was established come from North African and Arab countries. The came after being expelled from those countries with nothing more than the shirts on their backs. There have always been Jewish communities in the Middle East. In fact they were there before Islam was dreamed of. The reason we hear about Palestinian refugees and not these people is because Israel welcomed them with open arms while Arabs refused to allow the Palestinians to integrate into their societies.

I should add was it paranoia or the gas chambers of the Nazi's that killed the Jews during the Holocaust. Was it paranoia that killed and expelled the Jews during the inquisition. I could go on but the message is clear.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Dec, 2003 06:43 pm
As I said...

...so long as there is a state of Israel in the Middle East...

...and there are Arabs, Palestinians, Islamics there too...

...there will never be anything remotely resembling peace there.
0 Replies
 
 

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