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WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

 
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 03:51 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I was looking into the "sex by surprise" thing and I think this might have been a bad media translation or catchy soundbyte/headline thing. As I understand Sweden has three levels of sexual assault/molestation, the charge against Assange is the lowest of the three and it's name is most literally translated as "rape, lesser crime."

Does someone have a good source to determine where "sex by surprise" came from? It certainly doesn't sound like a real legal term, even a poorly translated one.

For details on the actual allegations of the Ms A and Ms W, the NYT link I posted has a annotation in the original source.

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failures art
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 03:54 pm
@JPB,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Arrest_Warrant#Procedure
Quote:
A valid European Arrest Warrant may only be issued by the competent judicial authority in the issuing member state. In the UK, this authority is the Crown Prosecution Service. The issuing state must complete a form stating the nature of the offence and giving a short description of the circumstances surrounding the offence, details of the person sought and the applicable penalty. This form is then sent to the relevant receiving state if the issuing state knows the location of the person sought. If the issuing state does not know the location of the person sought, they will distribute the EAW to all member states via SIRENE and INTERPOL.[8]

Once arrested, the person must be informed of the EAW and its contents. They must also be informed that they have the right to consent to surrender and the right to legal advice and an interpreter. If they do not consent to surrender they will face a hearing, where a judge will decide whether any of the legal bars to extradition exist. These legal bars include;

1. the arrested person has already been convicted or acquitted of the same offence or an offence relating to the same facts as those described in the EAW;
2. extraneous considerations (e.g. a risk that the person will be prosecuted or prejudiced at trial due to race, religion or political opinions);
3. passage of time (extradition would be unjust or oppressive given the time elapsed);
4. the person’s age is below the legal age of criminal responsibility; or
5. the physical or mental condition of the person makes it unjust or oppressive to extradite.

If one of these legal bars applies, the Judge must discharge the arrested person. If none of these legal bars apply, the Judge must order the extradition of the arrested person. There must be an opportunity for both parties to appeal the decision. Extradition must take place within 90 days of arrest or within 10 days if the arrested person consents to surrender.


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JPB
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 03:58 pm
@failures art,
I don't read that the same way you do. I see the "consent to surrender" as synonymous with not fighting the extradition and agreeing to be extradited within the 10 day period.
CalamityJane
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 04:00 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Never thought Sweden was a puppet state for the US. How disgusting!


Sweden has become a police state. Despite the new FRA law where they can
spy on every citizen via phone, mail, and suveillance, it is reported that the Swedish government has been eavesdropping for decades on its citizens.

Per Wahlöö (great, great author) has written about the Swedish police state already in the 60s

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FRA_law
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 04:01 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
http://www.slate.com/id/2276892/

Is "Sex by Surprise" Illegal in the United States?

How would the alleged Swedish sex crimes of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange fare in an American court?

By Jessica GrosePosted Monday, Dec. 6, 2010, at 6:20 PM ET
Julian Assange's lawyer told AOL News on Thursday that the WikiLeaks founder has been charged with "sex by surprise" in Sweden. Though the lawyer says he doesn't know what "sex by surprise" means, the Swedish prosecution office announced that they are charging Assange with "rape, sexual molestation and unlawful coercion." These charges allegedly stem from consensual sexual encounters with two separate women that became nonconsensual at some point during the act. (Update, Dec. 7, 2010: Julian Assange was arrested in Britain by an extradition unit on Swedish charges of unlawful coercion, sexual molestation, and rape.) If this had happened in the United States, could Assange have been charged with a crime?
Possibly. The traditional common-law rule is that there needs to be both lack of consent and the threat of physical force in order for a sexual violation to constitute rape. By that standard, Assange might be in the clear if his alleged activities took place in the United States (and if no violence was involved). But in some states, lack of consent can by itself serve as the basis for a rape charge. The exact circumstances under which a woman might revoke her consent varies: In Illinois, for example, it is considered rape if a woman says "no" at any time during sex and her partner does not stop. Other states are vague on the question of whether someone can change her mind after penetration has occurred. And some courts have been very clear that consent is locked in once intercourse has begun.

There used to be even more requirements for a woman to bring rape charges. Until the legal reform movement that began in the 1970s, a prosecutor would take on a case only if the woman could corroborate that the rape had occurred—her own testimony was insufficient without a third-party witness or evidence of serious injury. That requirement has been dropped from most state rape laws. Feminist reformers also tried to do away with the idea that rape must include at least the threat of physical force, but with less success. The so-called "resistance requirement"—as in, the woman must try to resist the attack—has remained on the books in most states, albeit in a watered-down form. For example, a woman no longer has to prove that she fought back to the best of her ability—she only needs to prove that she did enough to let her partner know she did not want sex.

spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 04:07 pm
@JPB,
Quote:
Why is he under house arrest if not to wait for his hearing for extradition to Sweden?


It might be the case that it is because of who he is and who he knows.

Oh--I nearly forgot--shame on me--also on who takes the can back if he disappears.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 04:14 pm
@BillW,
But it is so easy to claim withdrawal of consent at a later time. This whole thing depends on taking the word of the woman over that of the man. Surely?

I presume there is no other evidence.

And most of this thread seems to accept that as being right and proper.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 04:16 pm
@BillW,
The whole silliness sound like rape by fraud in the few US states that support such a charge.

IE the consent for sex was granted on the condition that a condom would be used.

But we seem not to be even to get the details out of Sweden so who know what bullshit they will be coming up with.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 04:18 pm
@hingehead,
hingehead wrote:

While I appreciate your quirky sarcasm you can't hide from the fact that you labelled a bunch of questions and posts by individuals as an organised belief in a conspiracy, then sought to debunk it, and then did a little dance. Maybe you need two torches.


I won't deny that I believe a number of you have been describing a conspiracy. Nor will I deny that I have expressed an opinion which calls into question whether or not a conspiracy exists. By using terms like Forces of Transparent Truth and Forces for Assange Lionization I may have given the impression that I believe some of you folks are part of an organized effort to develop a conspiracy theory, but that's not the case. I do think organized efforts exists, but unless you are part of Operation Payback or Assange's defense team, I don't think you're part of them. I use the terms to add levity to the postings - undoubtedly there are traces of sarcasm in my humor.

In any case, it's a bit rich to see someone who has made the following comments to me complaining because he has had his feelings hurt over gentle mockery of conspiracy theories:

You guys, Finn and BillRM, are absolutely revisionist retards

You guys are obscene.

Sometimes I can't tell if your head is in the sand or up your arse.

You are a moral dilettante, blinkered by nationalism.

I still don't know what you mean by "moral dilettante," but then I don't get the references to batteries and torches.

If you can compare one of my posts to a dance (even a little one), then I am pleased. I like to dance.
roger
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 04:19 pm
@CalamityJane,
I hope Saab will drop in and comment on this.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 04:33 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Flattered? Wake up, Finn . . . you're dreaming . . .
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 04:42 pm
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

I don't read that the same way you do. I see the "consent to surrender" as synonymous with not fighting the extradition and agreeing to be extradited within the 10 day period.

I remember Assange's lawyer saying something about having 10 days on Dec 7th. I'll see if I can find the quote.

Here is the quote: Dec 7th, 2010
Quote:
Sky News first reported that the Australian had been arrested at 9:30 GMT. A few minutes later, Assange's London-based lawyer, Mark Stephens, appeared to deny the rumour, telling the Press Association:

"I haven't even seen the warrant yet. We have got 10 days to do this and a lot of complex schedules to organise... I am sure it will be announced when it happens. I have not yet spoken to the police."


While searching I did come across something about the UK having 21 days to file something else or prepare some hearing (I'm not a lawyer, is it obvious?). I think this is where the house arrest bit comes into play. One was Sweden, the other was the UK.

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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 04:43 pm
@CalamityJane,
It was the Maj Sjovall & Per Wahloo series that got me interested in criminal procedurals set in other than the US/England ... a long time ago.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 04:45 pm
@failures art,
I still read that as they had up to 10 days to decide whether to fight extradition or not. Now that they've decided to fight extradition other time lines ensue.
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 04:53 pm
@JPB,
You're guess is as good as mine at this point. Wait until the morning GMT and then see what is said. I'm sure some form of procedural clarification will be made by Assange's lawyer.

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0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 05:06 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:

It was the Maj Sjovall & Per Wahloo series that got me interested in criminal procedurals set in other than the US/England ... a long time ago.

Yes, those books are great. Unfortunately Wahlöö died way too young, Sjovall
is still alive. According to Wahlöö, their intention was to "use the crime novel as a scalpel cutting open the belly of the ideological pauperized and morally debatable so-called welfare state of the bourgeois type."
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 05:09 pm
@failures art,
failures art wrote:

I was looking into the "sex by surprise" thing and I think this might have been a bad media translation ...

The Swedish prosecutor's office spokesman - speaking excellent English - gave an interview using these exact terms to the BBC, so we have to assume it's an exact legal translation. Not that I know any Swedish legalese. Israel has a charge called "sex by misrepresentation" applied recently to convict a Palestinian man who got an Israeli girlfriend by claiming to be jewish. My Hebrew is nonexistent, but again that was the charge as reported on the English websites of Israeli papers. Both are the lesser "rape-related" charges in each of these countries - but that's a charge-ranking system, not the crime name.
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 05:13 pm
@High Seas,
Good point.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 05:28 pm
@msolga,
Conspiracy: usually involves a group entering into a secret agreement to achieve some illicit or harmful objective

A coordinated effort by international government agencies to find a way to manufacture a successful prosecution of Julian Assange in order to put an end to embarrassing leaks of classified information certainly seems to meet this definition.

I'm not asserting that you or hinge or jane or any of the other members who seem to share your perspective on this matter have actually declared that a conspiracy exists, but what you have described as the actions and efforts of a number of major players fits the definition of one.

Continuously pointing out events or actions that you obviously believe are suspicious in their coincidence is part of the narrative you have been constructing. Any suggestion that disclaimers like "I'm just saying..." are intended to dispel misgivings of a conspiracy would be disingenuous.

If you don't believe a conspiracy is at work to deal with Julian Assange and shut down WikiLeaks you’re not doing a very good job to clearly state what you do believe.

If the US is using political and economic pressure to persuade other governments to join in a coordinated effort that will serve (however unequally) each nation's interests, and no party is admitting same, a conspiracy is in operation.

If the US is using political and economic pressure to coerce other governments into taking action that will serve only it's interests, and compelling these nations to remain silent on the coercion, than perhaps conspiracy is not the proper word to use to describe the concerted actions, but it is a damning charge none-the-less.

Actually I am surprised that most of the Support Assange campaign has taken place on the internet, despite the obvious connection to the medium of WikkiLeaks, because I have difficulty believing it can be as effective as having people leaving the comfort and security of their homes to stage physical demonstrations in a public place.

Given sufficient publicity, I can't imagine it’s very hard to get thousands of digital "signatures" on any on-line petition. If I were a government leader I would certainly judge as more passionate and committed a person joining a protest rally in from of an official building than one who hits a few keys and signs an on-line petition.

Perhaps in this way Australia differs from the US.

If US politicians and leaders actually appreciated the power off the internet, the massive cables leak may never have been allowed to happen. I doubt they look to it, other than in terms of polling results, to put their finger on the pulse of the American people.

In any case, unless there are revelations from with the Australian government that the Support Assange campaign actually influenced its decision on how to communicate and act, assumptions that it did are pure speculation.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 05:32 pm
@Setanta,
I guess I was if I thought I could get a simple response to a simple question from you.
 

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