57
   

WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 05:01 pm
@CalamityJane,
Your vision seems like it's 20/20.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 05:03 pm
@CalamityJane,
CalamityJane wrote:

Wandel, please get real here for a moment: Mastercard and moral standards
is not something you'll find easily in one sentence. All credit card institutions for that matter, are only out for their own profits.

Corporate America has no morals - the long long history of immoral conduct by corporate America should be example alone.




.....if you say so Smile
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 05:04 pm
@wandeljw,
No one ever spoke of conspiracy, that's grown on failure Arts head.
He's dissecting and turning words around just as he chooses to and then comes back for some more picking, dissecting and what not.
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 05:05 pm
@CalamityJane,
nose picking yee says?
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 05:07 pm
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:

CalamityJane wrote:

Wandel, please get real here for a moment: Mastercard and moral standards
is not something you'll find easily in one sentence. All credit card institutions for that matter, are only out for their own profits.

Corporate America has no morals - the long long history of immoral conduct by corporate America should be example alone.




.....if you say so Smile


No no Wandel - that's a FACT!! Look at Enron, look at Ford, Chrysler and other american car makers, look at the banks, at Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the list is just about endless..... Does the word "moral" come to mind if you think of them?
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 05:08 pm
@BillW,
BillW wrote:

nose picking yee says?


Laughing
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 05:08 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Your vision seems like it's 20/20.


If you listen to wandel, I am blind as a skunk! Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 05:09 pm
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:

hingehead wrote:

Quote:
Even the corporations that were attacked for dropping Wikileaks could possibly have had individual moral reservations about what Wikileaks was doing rather than being part of a big political conspiracy.


On a scale of 1 (least likely) to 10 (most likely) how do you rate the probability of that?


I am only saying that this possibility deserves to be considered. The alternative would be to believe that a grand conspiracy is behind everything that is negative to Wikileaks.


I'm not sure you appreciate wandel that a large segment of the participants in this thread and, in particular, the ones you've been just now addressing not only very strongly believe there is a grand conspiracy behind everything that it negative to WikiLeaks, they want to. It makes them happy.


cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 05:18 pm
@CalamityJane,
Well, I'm in the camp that doesn't trust corporations or any government.

US government: They exposed our own GI's to radiation exposure by having them in the area where they exploded a nuclear weapon.

Corporations: Enron, Worldcom, and most big corporations who pay their officers and CEO's 400 times the average pay of their employees - as they lay off workers, and cut their employee benefits.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 06:05 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
The alternative would be to believe that a grand conspiracy is behind everything that is negative to Wikileaks.


Yeah--right--money flowing from the provinces into the metropolis for no useful purpose. How can London, Stockholm, Washington and Canberra be paying for this load of shite when they don't grow food, find oil or generate electricity. They just consume it.

Laurence Sterne wrote about Walter Shandy, Tristram's father, that--

Quote:
He was very sensible that all political
writers upon the subject had unanimously
agreed and lamented, from the begin-
ning of Queen Elizabeth's reign down
to his own time, that the current of men
and money towards the metropolis, up-
on one frivolous errand or another, --
set in so strong, -- as to become dange-
rous to our civil rights ; -- tho', by the
bye, ---- a current was not the image he
took most delight in, -- a distemper was
here his favourite metaphor, and he
would run it down into a perfect allego-
ry, by maintaining it was identically the
same in the body national as in the body
natural, where blood and spirits were
driven up into the head faster than they
could find their ways down ; ---- a stop-
page of circulation must ensue, which
was death in both cases.
There was little danger, he would say,
of losing our liberties by French politicks
or French invasions ; ---- nor was he so
much in pain of a consumption from
the mass of corrupted matter and ulce-
rated humours in our constitution, --
which he hoped was not so bad as it was
imagined ; -- but he verily feared, that
in some violent push, we should go off,
all at once, in a state-apoplexy ; -- and
then he would say, The Lord have mercy
upon us all.


I trust that isn't too intellectual for you all. You do seem stuck in the hour as a sort of mirror to preen in.

Mr Shandy's remedy was to post constables at every entrance to the metropolis to question what business those seeking access were about and to send fools back to where they came from.




0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 06:13 pm
@wandeljw,
The possibility should certainly be considered, it was a serious question - how high do you rate the possibility? Amazon kicked Wikileaks off EC2, and now sell wikileaks cables for the Kindle. Individual moral reservations?

And you are wrong about the alternative - there isn't only one. I think the companies mentioned reacted to politicians knee jerk reactions about Assange being a terrorist and wikileaks being a threat to national security. They didn't seem to ask why the same charges weren't being laid against the NYT and other media outlets who were also publishing the same documents. It's ludicrous to think that the top levels of large business aren't having dialogue with the top levels of government - or are lobbyists some sort of charity group?

It's you and Finn that bring in the word 'conspiracy'. It's government trying to protect it's ass, that's what organisations do. I just think they've done it very badly.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  4  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 06:13 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
a <snip> large segment of the participants in this thread and, in particular, the ones you've been just now addressing not only very strongly believe there is a grand conspiracy behind everything that it negative to WikiLeaks, they want to. It makes them happy.


<don't miss the next meeting behind the palazzo. I'll have a red carnation in my sinister hand>

JPB
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 06:14 pm
On the larger US security scale...

Quote:
WASHINGTON — The U.S. government's main code-making and code-cracking agency now works on the assumption that foes may have pierced even the most sensitive national security computer networks under its guard.

"There's no such thing as 'secure' any more," Debora Plunkett of the National Security Agency said on Thursday amid U.S. anger and embarrassment over disclosure of sensitive diplomatic cables by the website WikiLeaks.

"The most sophisticated adversaries are going to go unnoticed on our networks," she said. MORE
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 06:14 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
I'm not sure you appreciate wandel that a large segment of the participants in this thread and, in particular, the ones you've been just now addressing not only very strongly believe there is a grand conspiracy behind everything that it negative to WikiLeaks, they want to. It makes them happy.


And where have I asserted there IS a grand conspiracy? Like Wandel, I only urge the consideration of the possibilities. You're masturbating by torchlight again.
dyslexia
 
  4  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 06:18 pm
@ehBeth,
I'll be flying in on Sunday wearing my black Stetson, the flash drive I promised will be hidden in he false heel of my left boot. Operation Warhol is a go.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 06:19 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
You just have more trust in your government than I do, Finn. Good for you!
---

I tell you about a German case that took place in 1962. The publisher of DER SPIEGEL, Rudolph Augstein, was jailed for 3 months because he published a
story about the German defense capabilities in the military. He was accused of exposing secret state information and therefore indicted.
At the trial the courts had no choice than to abide the law - freedom of press
was considered to be more important than the outrage of all politicians and
ultimately it wasn't the media and DER SPIEGEL who felt the heat, it was
the government who was not able to keep secret documents under wrap.

Every government is allowed to have secrets, definitely! Yet, every citizen
and non-citizen has the right to disclose such secrets, should the government
fail to keep it secret. In other words, it is part of the government's responsibility to protect sensitive material, but you cannot legally enforce disclosure, should it take place.

This is also practiced in the United States and a prime example is Valerie Palme. Was the journalist who reported that she was a CIA agent, jailed?
No, the government source who gave the information was prosecuted,
as it should be.

Same with Assange, he is the journalist who leaked government cables
that were supplied to him by government sources. Therefore, not Assange
but these government sources should be prosecuted.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 06:23 pm
@hingehead,
What!!?? The legal profession, with all its accoutrements, ushers, lawyers, bog cleaners, monumental buildings, taxis, media scrums, ink inserts in flattened out wood pulp, chancers, avid readers etc etc etbloody cetera plus secretaries of state representing giant bureaucracies exercised on a pivotal point of whether some Aussie bozo pressed a Swedish tart into the mattress-- are you kidding or what? And none of them having any idea where to go from here except that wherever it is can be made to sound credible with rhetoric.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  5  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 06:27 pm
Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Quote:
They’ve infuriated government officials, provoked Internet hackers, and now, the secret cables exposed by WikiLeaks have inspired an ad for feminine products in Pakistan.

“WikiLeaks… Butterfly doesn’t,” boasts Butterfly brand sanitary pad company in their new campaign


http://www.mizozo.com/images/item_images/15000/14967_src.jpg
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 06:53 pm
A couple of informative video updates, published today.

This one includes Julian Assange's address to supporters after the bail decision was upheld by the court.

Also a response from from one of his team of lawyers, Mark Stephens, on the details of his bail conditions.

(please excuse the advertisement at the start.)


Quote:
Video:WikiLeaks' Assange free on bail (01:26)

London's High Court upholds bail for WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, freeing him to direct WikiLeaks' operations from a mansion in England.

http://media.smh.com.au/national/selections/wikileaks-assange-free-on-bail-2099363.html?from=newsbox
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 07:07 pm
@msolga,
Video #2

This one features Australian expat journalist's, John Pilger, and his response to the court's decision. ("still a long way to go")

John Pilger is a strong supporter of Julian Assange & Wikileaks. He is one of a number of people who supplied the surety money required before Julian Assange could be released on bail.

There are 3 other related videos available at this (Telegraph (UK) link, if you're interested.


Quote:
Video: John Pilger: WikiLeaks decision 'a glimpse of justice'

Campaigning investigative journalist John Pilger, who has put up a £20,000 surety for Julian Assange, says his bail is a 'glimpse of justice'.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8207029/John-Pilger-WikiLeaks-decision-a-glimpse-of-justice.html
0 Replies
 
 

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