57
   

WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

 
 
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 06:32 pm
There's an interesting discussion amongst some folks who discuss these types of things here.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 08:02 pm
This is a bit of a surprise, to say the least!

So the bail decision was not at the behest of Swedish prosecutors, at all.
The decision to keep him in jail was taken by British authorities.

And they intend to argue in court tomorrow for the reversal of the decision to free him on bail.
The Swedish authorities say they have "no view" on the bail application.

Curiouser & curiouser ...

Read some of the comments of Guardian readers directly under the article.


Quote:

Julian Assange bail decision made by UK authorities, not Sweden
Guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 15 December 2010 20.55 GMT

Swedish prosecutor's office says it has 'not got a view at all on bail' and that Britain made decision to oppose it

The decision to have Julian Assange sent to a London jail and kept there was taken by the British authorities and not by prosecutors in Sweden, as previously thought, the Guardian has learned.

The Crown Prosecution Service will go to the high court tomorrow to seek the reversal of a decision to free the WikiLeaks founder on bail, made yesterday by a judge at City of Westminster magistrates court.

It had been widely thought Sweden had made the decision to oppose bail, with the CPS acting merely as its representative. But today the Swedish prosecutor's office told the Guardian it had "not got a view at all on bail" and that Britain had made the decision to oppose bail.

Lawyers for Assange reacted to the news with shock and said CPS officials had told them this week it was Sweden which had asked them to ensure he was kept in prison.


Karin Rosander, director of communications for Sweden's prosecutor's office, told the Guardian: "The decision was made by the British prosecutor. I got it confirmed by the CPS this morning that the decision to appeal the granting of bail was entirely a matter for the CPS. The Swedish prosecutors are not entitled to make decisions within Britain. It is entirely up to the British authorities to handle it."

As a result, she said, Sweden will not be submitting any new evidence or arguments to the high court hearing tomorrow morning. "The Swedish authorities are not involved in these proceedings. We have not got a view at all on bail."

After the Swedish statement was put to the CPS, it confirmed that all decisions concerning the opposing of bail being granted to Assange had been taken by its lawyers. It said: "In all extradition cases, decisions on bail issues are always taken by the domestic prosecuting authority. It would not be practical for prosecutors in a foreign jurisdiction … to make such decisions."....<cont>

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/15/julian-assange-bail-decision-uk
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 08:40 pm
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

There's an interesting discussion amongst some folks who discuss these types of things here.


That was an interesting read, and the common consent is that it will be much
easier to prosecute than to convict. I interpreted from their carefully written
answers, that it will be almost impossible.

One phrase stood out in regards to extradition
Quote:
Extradition for “political offenses” is rare, and Sweden has a long history of granting political asylum/refusing political extradition. Only extreme diplomatic pressure (of a form I cannot readily imagine being actually applied) would be likely to compel the Swedes to yield him up for trial. The British might be more willing to extradite him, and our extradition treaty with them might cover these offenses. One would hope that the Administration does not delay its extradition request until after Assange moves to a less-favorable jurisdiction.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 09:15 pm
@msolga,
That is interesting.

Perhaps their original claim that they wished for Assange to benefit from protective custody is more legitimate than I first thought.

Or they would like to see the Assange affair put to bed and they didn't want to seem him skip bail and drag the thing out.

Or perhaps it was just a reflex action by a prosecutor

Or the UK is doing the US a slight favor.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 09:24 pm
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

There's an interesting discussion amongst some folks who discuss these types of things here.


Yes it was interesting - thanks
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 09:53 pm
@CalamityJane,
CalamityJane wrote:

failures art wrote:

What do you mean by "strategically?"

Also, unless Time altered it's policy this year, what is there to suggest that the selection of Zuckerburg is strategic? And what do you perceive is the objective of said strategy?


As someone mentioned before, selecting Zuckerberg will have virtually no
backlash on time magazine, as he a) defied the government and gave wikileaks a platform to publish and b) facebook has 500 million active users - they like
facebook and they like what he did for wikileaks. So, it was a good strategy
of time magazine to choose Zuckerberg as he'll generate the least amount of outcry from Assange supporters.

Why should Time care about backlash? This is why I was asking about previous PotY awards. Have they ever been decided by just popular vote? If not, then why now would they owe any explanation at all?

It seems that no matter who gets the PotY, the message to take away is that it's still about Assange. Why can't it just be about Zuckerburg? This seems like an unnecessary degree of conspiracy. Time gains nothing from any perceived strategy. The lose nothing from either person either.

A
R
T
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 09:57 pm
@CalamityJane,
CalamityJane wrote:


That was an interesting read, and the common consent is that it will be much
easier to prosecute than to convict. I interpreted from their carefully written
answers, that it will be almost impossible.



A more obvious point of common consent is that an indictment will survive a motion to dismiss. In other words, if there is an indictment and extradition, there will be a trial.

Your following statement is perfect testimony to the truth in the old adage that people see what they want to see.

I interpreted from their carefully written answers, that (conviction) will be almost impossible.

The statement would be more accurate if it read

I carefully interpreted from their written answers, that (conviction) will be almost impossible.

Your interpretation that the three participants agree that conviction will be "almost impossible" is far more a product of wishful thinking than even basic reading comprehension.

Lowell opined that a conviction will depend on how the jury instructions are written, and whether a jury decides to follow them. There is nothing in his opinion that predicts what the instructions might be or what the chances are that a jury will follow them.

Vladek punts the question of conviction to the 12 person jury without any indication of whether he believes acquittal is more likely than conviction.

Rosensweig actually goes on the record and states that the chance of conviction is in the 60% - 70% range. This is a clearly stated opinion that not only is a conviction not "almost impossible", it is likely.

So, one of the three clearly predicts conviction and the other two offer no opinion on its likelihood, and yet you read them to agree that conviction was "almost impossible."

The extent of your zeal for Assange is impressive. You are certainly a member in fine standing of the Forces of Assange Lionization
.
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 10:21 pm
@failures art,
Why they should care? Time magazine is in the business of selling magazines
and need customers, that's why. There was a backlash against Amazon and
Mastercard, so why spare Time magazine? Why can't it be just about Zuckerberg? Just because he happens to be in the crossfire - nothing personal.
failures art
 
  0  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 10:21 pm
Wait second...

Who gives a **** about Time Person of the Year? This is the most trivial of discussions yet on WL or Assange.

A
R
T
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 10:22 pm
@failures art,
Hear, hear, Art! Smile

(Sorry, Jane. I completely understand where you're coming from.)

But I don't know anyone who even bothers to read Time magazine anymore.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 10:27 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Well you see, everyone has his/her own interpretation. You certainly have
more faith in your government that they will find a way to convict him, like
they have done so with many many other innocent people (Guatanamo).
I on the other hand, am not american born, I see things in a wider perspective
where citizens of other nationalities who are protected by the jurisdiction of their own country, can and will prevail, even when the bully happens to be the United States.
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 10:29 pm
@failures art,
Then stop asking questions about it, very simple!
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 10:35 pm
@CalamityJane,
CalamityJane wrote:

Why they should care? Time magazine is in the business of selling magazines
and need customers, that's why.

People won't be interested in a story on Zuckerburg?

CalamityJane wrote:

There was a backlash against Amazon and Mastercard, so why spare Time magazine?

What backlash? Did people stop using Amazon? Did people stop using their Mastercards?

I agree that Amazon and Mastercard went wikiweak (couldn't help myself), but I don't think Assange is entitled to the PotY. Time is not a part of WL operations either. How could the non-selection of Assange be worth backlash? Is the goal just to find the next thing to back lash against?

CalamityJane wrote:

Why can't it be just about Zuckerberg? Just because he happens to be in the crossfire - nothing personal.

So Zuckerburg doesn't deserve it?
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 10:36 pm
@CalamityJane,
CalamityJane wrote:

Then stop asking questions about it, very simple!

Fair enough. I just don't see why this is being made into controversy. Confused

A
R
T
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 10:41 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
That is interesting.

Perhaps their original claim that they wished for Assange to benefit from protective custody is more legitimate than I first thought.

Or they would like to see the Assange affair put to bed and they didn't want to seem him skip bail and drag the thing out.

Or perhaps it was just a reflex action by a prosecutor

Or the UK is doing the US a slight favor.


It certainly is interesting, Finn!

We have been led to believe that it is the Swedish authorities who wish to oppose the granting of bail to Julian Assange.

And that is how the British prosecution has presented the situation to Assange's legal team. But they have been been dishonest about this.

Now we know that the British prosecution (not the Swedish authorities) plans to oppose the granting of bail. They want to overturn the courts decision.

Why?

That is anyone's guess.

I'm as flummoxed by this revelation as Assange's lawyers are.

However, I do not live in the UK, so I can only guess at what's behind this. However I will be following what transpires in court tomorrow very closely.

In the meantime, the reactions from the readers of the Guardian (at the end of the article I posted) might give you some idea of the reaction in Britain.

But one thing we can be sure of, this has nothing to do with Sweden.

Stay tuned!

CalamityJane
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 10:44 pm
@msolga,
The British might be more willing to extradite Assange than the Swedes would.
Even the Swedes wouldn't indefinitely take the blame...
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 10:45 pm
@msolga,
Another possibility is that many people simply made assumptions here. Assumptions about the Swedes in this case. We're we actually led to believe the Swedes wanted to deny bail or did we assume it was them?

I can't recall everything that has been posted. I need a timeline.

Did the Swedes ever actually say anything, or was it our assumption? What statements were actually made up to this point regarding bail?

A
R
T
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  3  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 10:51 pm
@CalamityJane,
Quote:
The British might be more willing to extradite Assange than the Swedes would.
Even the Swedes wouldn't indefinitely take the blame...


I would think the Brits close ties to Oz would defer to that relationship in making decision. I do believe that in the end USA has asked all to slow go actions with Assange in custody until they (US) can get their act together on what they can or can not do. I have been wrong before, but this is what it looks like to me.
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 10:57 pm
@BillW,
You're probably right on that one, BillW. Assange will be held in Britain until
the U.S. has gotten a fool proof indictment drawn up and then he'll be extradited to the U.S.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 10:58 pm
@CalamityJane,
Quote:
The British might be more willing to extradite Assange than the Swedes would.
Even the Swedes wouldn't indefinitely take the blame...


Yes, that it definitely a possibility, Jane, I agree with you.

And of course, Britain now has a (very) Conservative government.
No doubt you're perfectly aware of the continued protests, the strife in the streets, as a result of their policies.

I suspect there will be considerably more anger if this government takes the "extradition course".

The striking thing about all of this to me, is the deliberate dishonesty of the Prosecution. It allowed us all to believe that Julian Assange was still in jail, despite the court's granting of bail, because of a Swedish challenge.

Good for the Swedes for clearing that up before tomorrow's hearing in court.

Now let's see what the Prosecution is really up to!

 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.05 seconds on 01/03/2025 at 07:53:47