57
   

WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

 
 
realjohnboy
 
  2  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 05:28 pm
@CalamityJane,
I am skeptical. Wikilinks claims that Time is shunning them. Wikilinks claims. They have a good PR firm.
Did you know that Time named Hitler as Man of the Year?
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 05:30 pm
@hawkeye10,
JTT, from Hawk that's a compliment.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 05:30 pm
@msolga,
msolga wrote:

Here's the full text of the open letter to the prime minster:

Quote:



Dear Prime Minister,


We note with concern the increasingly violent rhetoric directed towards Julian Assange of WikiLeaks.

“We should treat Mr Assange the same way as other high-value terrorist targets: Kill him,” writes conservative columnist Jeffrey T Kuhner in the Washington Times.

William Kristol, former chief of staff to vice president Dan Quayle, asks, “Why can’t we use our various assets to harass, snatch or neutralize Julian Assange and his collaborators, wherever they are?”

“Why isn’t Julian Assange dead?” writes the prominent US pundit Jonah Goldberg.

“The CIA should have already killed Julian Assange,” says John Hawkins on the Right Wing News site.

Sarah Palin, a likely presidential candidate, compares Assange to an Al Qaeda leader; Rick Santorum, former Pennsylvania senator and potential presidential contender, accuses Assange of “terrorism”.

And so on and so forth.

Such calls cannot be dismissed as bluster. Over the last decade, we have seen the normalisation of extrajudicial measures once unthinkable, from ‘extraordinary rendition’ (kidnapping) to ‘enhanced interrogation’ (torture).

In that context, we now have grave concerns for Mr Assange’s wellbeing.

Irrespective of the political controversies surrounding WikiLeaks, Mr Assange remains entitled to conduct his affairs in safety, and to receive procedural fairness in any legal proceedings against him.

As is well known, Mr Assange is an Australian citizen.

We therefore call upon you to condemn, on behalf of the Australian Government, calls for physical harm to be inflicted upon Mr Assange, and to state publicly that you will ensure Mr Assange receives the rights and protections to which he is entitled, irrespective of whether the unlawful threats against him come from individuals or states.

We urge you to confirm publicly Australia’s commitment to freedom of political communication; to refrain from cancelling Mr Assange's passport, in the absence of clear proof that such a step is warranted; to provide assistance and advocacy to Mr Assange; and do everything in your power to ensure that any legal proceedings taken against him comply fully with the principles of law and procedural fairness.
A statement by you to this effect should not be controversial – it is a simple commitment to democratic principles and the rule of law.

We believe this case represents something of a watershed, with implications that extend beyond Mr Assange and WikiLeaks. In many parts of the globe, death threats routinely silence those who would publish or disseminate controversial material. If these incitements to violence against Mr Assange, a recipient of Amnesty International’s Media Award, are allowed to stand, a disturbing new precedent will have been established in the English-speaking world.
In this crucial time, a strong statement by you and your Government can make an important difference.

We look forward to your response.



Overall this really isn't too objectionable and with a few changes even I could sign it.

First of all, a number of the quotes used at the start of the letter are gratuitous or taken out of context.

For example, Jonah Goldberg's "Why isn't Julian Assange dead?" was part of a column that addressed people's fanciful paranoia about the intelligence and security services of the US government and American corporations. If these agencies are so diabolically ruthless, "why isn't Julian Assange dead?"

Whether or not Assange is entitled to conduct his affairs insafety depends upon what they amount to and whether or not they are illegal, but he certainly is entitled to receive procedural fairness in any legal proceedings against him.

No problem with the Australian government condemning calls for physical harm or ensuring that he receives the rights and protections to which he is entitled. (I suspect I would have some disagreement with the signatories on what those rights and protections but, but whatever he's entitled to the Australian government should do its best to ensure he gets them).

I don't know what they mean by freedom of political communication, and would need to before I called on Australia to confirm a committment to it. I do not believe the release or publishing of classified information fits cleanly within such a freedom.

Again, they should do their best to ensure any legal proceeding against him are fair and comply with generally accepted principles of law.

The fact that he received an award from Amnesty International is irrelevant and gratuitous, and the bit about a new precedent is overblown and inacurate.

I doubt, though, that the authors of this letter will agree to my edits and so alas I will not sign it.

Not that it matters. Even if this letter had one million signatories (a number that is ridiculously greater than what is to be expected) the Australian government will never respond to it. No government would.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 05:33 pm
@realjohnboy,
Bingo, and walking.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 05:33 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Do you know who Harold Koh is?

Do you think he's a crackpot partisan hack or just full of **** on this topic?

I would think that someone with Harold Koh's credentials might at least give you pause to think.


I certainly know who Koh is, and I agree with Ceili - what he wrote is almost certainly bullshit, and he knew it when he wrote it.

Cycloptichorn


Damn those Obama political appointees!

They lose all integrity when they join the Administration.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 05:34 pm
@realjohnboy,
Quote:
I am skeptical. Wikilinks claims that Time is shunning them. Wikilinks claims. They have a good PR firm.
interesting...you can still vote for him,

Quote:
1 Julian Assange 91 291172
2 Recep Tayyip Erdogan 82 222039
3 Lady Gaga 72 137904
http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2028734_2029036_2029037,00.html
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 05:35 pm
@realjohnboy,
And Stalin, and Nixon.

The point is they removed him from the list they created. How's that for political censorship? The name of this thread is apt. **** is really going to hit the fan...
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 05:37 pm
@hingehead,
Really!

Because when vapid and increasingly irrelvant Time magazine can't stand up to Power, who will save us?

hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 05:38 pm
@hawkeye10,
Hawk is right, who on this thread reported that he'd been removed? Going back and sharing my hat with you for lunch when I find you!
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 05:39 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
I am skeptical. Wikilinks claims that Time is shunning them. Wikilinks claims. They have a good PR firm.
interesting...you can still vote for him,

Quote:
1 Julian Assange 91 291172
2 Recep Tayyip Erdogan 82 222039
3 Lady Gaga 72 137904
http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2028734_2029036_2029037,00.html


Christ, you mean Erdogan is now going to become Man of The Year?!

Reinstate Assange!
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 05:43 pm
@CalamityJane,
Hmmm - OK CJ, you can have a little of my hat. You said wikileaks reported it. But I can't find anything about it on their tweetstream.

Plenty of people reporting the rumour, but it looks like it's bullshit.

hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 05:49 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Because, if it were true, it would be indicative of just how bound up in the power elites mainstream media is, and how dismissive they are of our intelligence.

Censorship is directly linked the preservation of power elites. Censorship increases the more they feel threatened. Clearly Assange doesn't pose enough of a threat yet. (I doubt he ever will - it's the pandora's box he's opened that is their problem)
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 05:54 pm
I think that all these rationalisations and evidential certainties represent a denial that things are out of control. When pressing an un-named Swedish tart into the mattress is the subject of international diplomacy you can be sure that things are out of control.

Wandsworth Prison is one of the safest places in the world and there are no central heating bills to pay by the residents. At -8 degrees that's not to be sneezed at.

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 06:00 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
For me America is always first....I take care of, and care about, those closest to me first. How you can do all your hating on America and acting like you want America to lose and to suffer IDK. It looks to me like you have serious moral flaws.


What a discombobulated "brain" you have, Hawk? I once noted that your screen name was highly inaccurate when it was measured against what you say. Given this latest piece of nonsense, that observation is more accurate than ever.

There is no hate in me for America. There is deep deep dismay that the war criminals of America are allowed to walk freely among honorable people.

What has America to lose by prosecuting its war criminals? Absolutely nothing. Well, that's not exactly true. The filthy rich who have gotten there by profiting from these war crimes might, in a just world stand to lose a lot.

But the real America, how could it lose a thing? America is big on putting felons in jail. Why the discrepancy when it comes to war criminals?

It's impossible to describe morality as "taking care of those closest to me", if by that you mean that you're willing to protect war criminals.

You gotta ask yourself, though I know you won't, just where are the serious moral flaws?

I note that you fall back on that go to American theme when you don't like the facts, "shoot the messenger".
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 06:10 pm
Quote:
And while few details about the cases have been released by officials, the British newspaper the Daily Mail in late August obtained a copy of the women’s police statements.

The statements showed that the women had met with Assange and both had unprotected sex with him during the course of several days. They later met each other and discovered that they had both slept with him while not using a condom.

After this discovery, the women walked into a police station together to report the events. According to the documents, the women feared that they had received a sexually transmitted disease (STD) from Assange. And especially one of the women was anxious about the possibility of HIV and pregnancy
http://wireupdate.com/wires/13032/report-wikileaks-founder-julian-assange-will-be-named-time-person-of-the-year/

Kinda makes me wonder how much they cared that he did not use a condom until they found out that they were not the only one he was screwing, as if they reported him because they were upset only after the event about something he did that was completely legal. This is looking like a case of women's buyers remorse making a man a criminal by way of removing consent long after the act, something that BillRM talks a lot about in the rape thread.

Or are we to believe that these women are so dumb that it never occurred to them that a man they were sleeping with could be sleeping with another woman until they actual met such a woman? I doubt this.

Anyways, the same article says

Quote:
WIREUPDATE) — TIME magazine will name WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange the 2010 ‘Person of the Year’ according to the Drudge Report, citing unnamed sources. Assange ,who was arrested Tuesday morning in England for sex crimes, was leading TIME’s online poll.

A spokesperson from TIME magazine tells WireUpdate,”Trying to guess TIME’s Person of the Year is an annual tradition and one of the great parlor games in journalism; we certainly welcome people guessing, but we never confirm or deny rumors until we reveal TIME’s choice.”

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 06:14 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Speaking of gratuitous and misleading.

Quote:
For example, Jonah Goldberg's "Why isn't Julian Assange dead?" was part of a column that addressed people's fanciful paranoia about the intelligence and security services of the US government and American corporations. If these agencies are so diabolically ruthless, "why isn't Julian Assange dead?"


The facts show that the security forces of the US are indeed ruthless. If they weren't ruthless six million innocents would not be lying in graves.

I'm not surprised that you find this Goldbergian argument compelling, Finn. This is exactly the kind of deception that you are famous for.



0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 06:14 pm
@ossobuco,
Quote:
They might be political whores though I'm doubting that myself, or just irritated women, "oh no, not her too!", who met and had quite a conversation, or women actually wronged in a way that isn't clear from here. The swedish prosecutorial episodes, given Assange's willingness to be interviewed at the embassy after having permission to leave the country, seem movie-like machinations - but I don't know that re machinations either. I can see putting that all together in one or more coherent scenarios.


John Pilger (expat Oz journalist) supplied one of the best rundowns I've come across of the absurdities of the Swedish case against Assange in this radio interview on Late Night Live. ( Radio National, Oz ABC ).

Very interesting & quite concerning, the background details of this case. And to think, this Swedish charge put Julian Assange on Interpol's red notice list!
(Pilger also gives an excellent case for transparency, our right to know what our governments are doing.)
I posted this here yesterday.
Well worth a listen, if you didn't do so before.)

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/latenightlive/stories/2010/3086240.htm
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 06:15 pm
@msolga,
Any transcripts of that, Olga?
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 06:17 pm
Our national ethnic broadcaster (SBS) showed 'The U.S. vs John Lennon' last night. Interesting choice for an interesting time. Resonance overload.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 06:20 pm
@msolga,
I'm not very enthusiastic about nabbing plug ins.

If there ever is a text online, I'd like to read it.
 

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