57
   

WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

 
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jul, 2012 12:20 am
Gosh, WikiLeaks really transformed the world didn't it?

It's amazing how it eliminated secrecy in governments.
hingehead
 
  2  
Reply Sat 14 Jul, 2012 05:03 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
I've missed you and your tossiness Finn. So if something hasn't transformed entrenched political processes within 5 years it must useless. Let's **** the declaration of independence off, it took seven years after that until the War of independence was won.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jul, 2012 06:51 am
@hingehead,
hingehead wrote:

It may also force other nations to cooperate and the regime to concede.


Strangely, Dr. Webster G. Tarpley, a progressive historian and analyst, is now accusing Wikileaks of collaborating with NATO:
http://presstv.com/detail/2012/07/13/250756/wikileaks-join-nato-attack-on-syria/
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jul, 2012 11:24 pm
@hingehead,
Oh yes, it's simmering below the surface.

The Declaration of Independence, arguably, launched a war which at least gave it a chance to have a major impact on on land, if not the world. Comparing the two is absurd.

What has followed the irrational exuberance that flowed from WikiLeaks?

Ennui.

But let's check back on this in a few years and see which assessment of the impact of Wikileaks was more accurate.

While we're at it, we can take at look at what The Arab Spring wrought.

At least WikiLeaks made a bigger splash than that other transformative movement: Occupy Wall Street.

hingehead
 
  2  
Reply Sun 15 Jul, 2012 02:25 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Hi Finn

Ok, let's try another analogy. Amazing how the Justice system defeated crime isn't it?
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sun 15 Jul, 2012 03:08 pm
@hingehead,
If the Justice system defeated crime it would be out of business.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2012 05:22 am
Quote:
GI largely barred from discussing WikiLeaks harm
(By DAVID DISHNEAU, Associated Press, July 19, 2012)

A military judge on Thursday largely barred an Army private from presenting evidence at his trial that the mountain of classified information he's accused of leaking did little harm to U.S. national security and foreign relations.

Army Col. Denise Lind, presiding over a pretrial hearing at Fort Meade, agreed with prosecutors that the extent of any damage is irrelevant to the 22 charges against Pfc. Bradley Manning. He's accused of aiding the enemy by sending hundreds of thousands of diplomatic cables and war logs to the secret-spilling website WikiLeaks. That charge carries a possible life sentence.

Lind left the door open, though, for defense attorneys to raise the issue of harm to show bias by individual trial witnesses.

Prosecutors also are barred from presenting evidence of harm during the trial phase. Both sides will be allowed to give that evidence during sentencing if the 24-year-old native of Crescent, Okla., is convicted.

Prosecutors argued they aren't required to prove the leaks caused harm. Lind agreed, saying jurors "will be confused by the focus of the trial shifting" if such evidence is allowed.

Manning's trial, originally set for late September, could be pushed back to February, Lind said Thursday.

Lead Manning attorney David Coombs said during arguments Wednesday that the defense would be "cut off at the knees" if lawyers can't talk about harm at trial. Military justice experts said Coombs will have a tougher road without the information.

The damage done by the leaks is disputed.

More than two dozen so-called "damage assessments" were conducted by the departments of State, Defense, Homeland Security and other agencies, according to Manning's lawyers. Those assessments aren't public, but Coombs said the damage is minimal or "speculative at best."

Speaking about the leak in 2010, then Defense Secretary Robert Gates seemed to agree, saying: "Is this embarrassing? Yes. Is it awkward? Yes. Consequences for U.S. foreign policy? I think fairly modest."

Other officials have been more wary. They say the information's release caused turbulent relations with some countries and caused others to pull back from dealings with the United States. They cautioned that the fallout may last for years.

Jon Shelburne, who has frequently been a defense attorney in military cases, said before the hearing that it would be a large leap for a military jury to let Manning off the hook simply because no harm resulted from his actions.

Victor Hansen, an Army lawyer for more than a decade, said before the hearing that excluding evidence of harm would make the prosecution's already complex case more straightforward. Hansen, who teaches at New England Law in Boston, said barring such evidence from the trail would prevent Manning's lawyers from introducing their major theme of "no harm, no foul."

Lind also ruled Thursday that United Nations torture investigator Juan Mendez cannot testify about Manning's pretrial detention at a Marine Corps brig in Quantico, Va. She said Mendez' testimony was irrelevant to whether Manning's nine months in maximum-security confinement amounted to illegal punishment. The court will hear arguments on that issue next month.

Mendez accused the United States last year of violating U.N. rules by refusing him unfettered access Manning.

Manning was held at the brig in Quantico before he was moved in April 2011 to medium-security confinement at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. During virtually all of his time at Quantico, he was confined to his cell 23 hours a day. Coombs claims the former brig commander, Chief Warrant Officer 4 James Averhart, illegally put Manning on suicide watch or "prevention of injury" status against the advice of the brig psychiatrist and a defense psychiatrist. For several days in January 2011, Manning's clothing was taken from him each night until he was issued a suicide-prevention smock.

Manning is accused of providing to WikiLeaks documents including Iraq and Afghanistan war logs and more than 250,000 diplomatic cables while working as an intelligence analyst in Baghdad in 2009 and 2010.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2012 09:50 am
@wandeljw,
Interesting; leaks didn't cause harm?

Some people already want Manning to be swinging from the yard arm.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2012 09:59 am
@cicerone imposter,
Anybody in harm's way must have been glad of the leaks bearing in mind the lax security. They provided a warning.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2012 07:19 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
... (Manning is ) ... accused of aiding the enemy by sending hundreds of thousands of diplomatic cables and war logs to the secret-spilling website WikiLeaks. That charge carries a possible life sentence.

...... Prosecutors also are barred from presenting evidence of harm during the trial phase. Both sides will be allowed to give that evidence during sentencing if the 24-year-old native of Crescent, Okla., is convicted.

Prosecutors argued they aren't required to prove the leaks caused harm. Lind agreed, saying jurors "will be confused by the focus of the trial shifting" if such evidence is allowed. ....

Have I got this right?
The state accuses Bradley Manning of "aiding the enemy".
But the prosecution doesn't have to prove that he did so during his trial.
And his defence is barred from supplying evidence that he didn't.
But both the defence & prosecution will be allowed to give evidence after he is sentenced?

Confused

What sort kangaroo court is this?
Sounds like some George Orwell novel to me.
Why bother with the "trial" at all?
Why not just lock him up for life now & throw away the key? Neutral
Is this some pre-election show trial to show tough the US administration is?
.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2012 07:23 pm
@msolga,
Yea, I agree, it's a " kangaroo court." Who dreams up these trial conditions?
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2012 09:49 pm
@msolga,
You have two minor details incorrect. It is not the "state" that accuses him but a military court. Evidence that no harm resulted will be permitted before sentencing (but after the verdict). That no harm resulted would be considered in reducing his sentence (if found guilty).

The trial conditions for military court are more harsh.
msolga
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2012 10:11 pm
@wandeljw,
Sorry, wandel, but I can't see much (any?) difference between "the state's" stance & the military court's.
The seem exactly the same to me.

Quote:
Evidence that no harm resulted will be permitted before sentencing (but after the verdict).

Yes, that's what I alluded to in my post.
But why not before the verdict, during the actual trial, given that "aiding the enemy" is the most serious charge against Bradley Manning?
It doesn't make sense at all.
What's the point in being allowed to defend yourself against charges after a verdict has already been delivered? Confused
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2012 10:27 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
Lind agreed, saying jurors "will be confused by the focus of the trial shifting" if such evidence is allowed.


The jurors will be military, right? So tell us something we don't know.

This has been positively kafkaesque. It is only becoming more and more bizzare.

A band of arch war criminals/terrorists is heading the trial of a guy who sough to expose those same war criminals/terrorists.

WTF!
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2012 10:54 pm
@msolga,
The prosecution and the defense should be able to present their case fully during a trial. If conditions are set before the trial that restricts information, it's a kangaroo court.
msolga
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2012 11:17 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I totally agree, c.i.
Obviously.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2012 09:50 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
If conditions are set before the trial that restricts information, it's a kangaroo court.


Hey, CI, it's the USA.

Here, there are conditions where former presidents and their henchmen, thousands though they be, are given a pass for war crimes/terrorism because, get this, the US has hit a bit of a rough spot.

Can you imagine the gales of laughter if that argument had been pulled by the WWII war criminals? Yet, note well, it's a good argument to Americans. Go figure eh?
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jul, 2012 05:40 am
Just shown tonight on Four Corners, on the (Oz) ABC :

Quote:
Sex, Lies and Julian Assange
Monday 23rd July 2012/$ Corners/ABC television
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201207/r975087_10612596.jpg

When Julian Assange arrived in Sweden in August 2010 he was greeted like a conquering hero. But within weeks there was a warrant out for his arrest and he was being investigated for rape and sexual molestation. Today he is taking sanctuary in the Ecuadorean Embassy in London, arguing he won't receive justice if he's taken to Sweden and that US authorities are building a case for his extradition.

Next, Four Corners reporter Andrew Fowler examines in detail what happened in those crucial weeks while Julian Assange was in Sweden. What was the nature of his relationship with the two women who claim he assaulted them? And what did they tell police that led the authorities to seek his arrest?

"I will not tell any media how I am going to represent the women in court." Lawyer for Anna Ardin and Sofia Wilén

Both Assange and his supporters believe the attempt by authorities to force his return to Sweden is simply the first step in a plan to see him extradited to the United States.

"Sweden has frankly always been the United States' lapdog and it's not a matter we're particularly proud of." Assange supporter

"The US has nothing to do with the issue here, it's simply a matter between the UK and Sweden." Jeffrey L. Bleich, US Ambassador to Australia

Four Corners looks at claims the United States is working hard to unearth evidence that would lead to a charge of "conspiracy to commit espionage" being made against Assange - which in turn would be used in his extradition from Sweden. The program also documents the harassment experienced by Assange's supporters across the globe - including his Australian lawyer - and the FBI's attempts to convince some to give evidence against him.

"Sex, Lies and Julian Assange", reported by Andrew Fowler and presented by Kerry O'Brien, goes to air on Monday 23rd July at 8.30pm on ABC1. It is replayed on Tuesday 24th July at 11.35pm. It can also be seen on ABC News 24 at 8.00pm Saturday, ABC iview and at 4 Corners.



VIDEO: sex & lies & Julian Assange:
http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/07/19/3549280.htm

hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jul, 2012 05:14 pm
@msolga,
It certainly smells, doesn't it Olgs.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Jul, 2012 12:17 am
@msolga,
Yup.
Sure does!
 

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