57
   

WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

 
 
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 05:54 pm
@spendius,
Find what? Truth. It's out there, you just have to search for it. The releasing of these documents is unencumbered by right or left leanings, they are what they are. The unvarnished truth...
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 05:56 pm
@Ceili,
How do you know that? There's more than right and left in the mix. They meet round the back anyway.
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 05:56 pm
@spendius,
Alrighty then...
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  2  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 05:59 pm
Here's the transcript of the live Q&A session between Julian Assange and Guardian readers yesterday.:

Quote:

Julian Assange answers your questions

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Admin/BkFill/Default_image_group/2010/11/30/1291148706815/Julian-Assange-WikiLeaks--002.jpg
The founder of WikiLeaks, Julian Assange, answers readers' questions about the release of more than 250,000 US diplomatic cables


Fwoggie
I'll start the ball rolling with a question. You're an Australian passport holder - would you want return to your own country or is this now out of the question due to potentially being arrested on arrival for releasing cables relating to Australian diplomats and polices?
Julian Assange small



Julian Assange:

I am an Australian citizen and I miss my country a great deal. However, during the last weeks the Australian prime minister, Julia Gillard, and the attorney general, Robert McClelland, have made it clear that not only is my return is impossible but that they are actively working to assist the United States government in its attacks on myself and our people. This brings into question what does it mean to be an Australian citizen - does that mean anything at all? Or are we all to be treated like David Hicks at the first possible opportunity merely so that Australian politicians and diplomats can be invited to the best US embassy cocktail parties.

girish89
How do you think you have changed world affairs?
And if you call all the attention you've been given-credit ... shouldn't the mole or source receive a word of praise from you?



Julian Assange:
For the past four years one of our goals has been to lionise the source who take the real risks in nearly every journalistic disclosure and without whose efforts, journalists would be nothing. If indeed it is the case, as alleged by the Pentagon, that the young soldier - Bradley Manning - is behind some of our recent disclosures, then he is without doubt an unparalleled hero.

Daithi
Have you released, or will you release, cables (either in the last few days or with the Afghan and Iraq war logs) with the names of Afghan informants or anything else like so?
Are you willing to censor (sorry for using the term) any names that you feel might land people in danger from reprisals??
By the way, I think history will absolve you. Well done!!!



Julian Assange:
WikiLeaks has a four-year publishing history. During that time there has been no credible allegation, even by organisations like the Pentagon that even a single person has come to harm as a result of our activities. This is despite much-attempted manipulation and spin trying to lead people to a counter-factual conclusion. We do not expect any change in this regard.


distrot
The State Dept is mulling over the issue of whether you are a journalist or not. Are you a journalist? As far as delivering information that someone [anyone] does not want seen is concerned, does it matter if you are a 'journalist' or not?



Julian Assange:
I coauthored my first nonfiction book by the time I was 25. I have been involved in nonfiction documentaries, newspapers, TV and internet since that time. However, it is not necessary to debate whether I am a journalist, or how our people mysteriously are alleged to cease to be journalists when they start writing for our organisaiton. Although I still write, research and investigate my role is primarily that of a publisher and editor-in-chief who organises and directs other journalists.


achanth
Mr Assange,
have there ever been documents forwarded to you which deal with the topic of UFOs or extraterrestrials?



Julian Assange:
Many weirdos email us about UFOs or how they discovered that they were the anti-christ whilst talking with their ex-wife at a garden party over a pot-plant. However, as yet they have not satisfied two of our publishing rules.
1) that the documents not be self-authored;
2) that they be original.
However, it is worth noting that in yet-to-be-published parts of the cablegate archive there are indeed references to UFOs.


gnosticheresy
What happened to all the other documents that were on Wikileaks prior to these series of "megaleaks"? Will you put them back online at some stage ("technical difficulties" permitting)?



Julian Assange:
Many of these are still available at mirror.wikileaks.info and the rest will be returning as soon as we can find a moment to do address the engineering complexities. Since April of this year our timetable has not been our own, rather it has been one that has centred on the moves of abusive elements of the United States government against us. But rest assured I am deeply unhappy that the three-and-a-half years of my work and others is not easily available or searchable by the general public.


CrisShutlar
Have you expected this level of impact all over the world? Do you fear for your security?



Julian Assange:
I always believed that WikiLeaks as a concept would perform a global role and to some degree it was clear that is was doing that as far back as 2007 when it changed the result of the Kenyan general election. I thought it would take two years instead of four to be recognised by others as having this important role, so we are still a little behind schedule and have much more work to do. The threats against our lives are a matter of public record, however, we are taking the appropriate precautions to the degree that we are able when dealing with a super power.


JAnthony
Julian.
I am a former British diplomat. In the course of my former duties I helped to coordinate multilateral action against a brutal regime in the Balkans, impose sanctions on a renegade state threatening ethnic cleansing, and negotiate a debt relief programme for an impoverished nation. None of this would have been possible without the security and secrecy of diplomatic correspondence, and the protection of that correspondence from publication under the laws of the UK and many other liberal and democratic states. An embassy which cannot securely offer advice or pass messages back to London is an embassy which cannot operate. Diplomacy cannot operate without discretion and the
protection of sources. This applies to the UK and the UN as much as the US.
In publishing this massive volume of correspondence, Wikileaks is not highlighting specific cases of wrongdoing but undermining the entire process of diplomacy. If you can publish US cables then you can publish UK telegrams and UN emails.
My question to you is: why should we not hold you personally responsible when next an international crisis goes unresolved because diplomats cannot function.



Julian Assange:
If you trim the vast editorial letter to the singular question actually asked, I would be happy to give it my attention.


cargun
Mr Assange,
Can you explain the censorship of identities as XXXXX's in the revealed cables? Some critical identities are left as is, whereas some are XXXXX'd. Some cables are partially revealed. Who can make such critical decisons, but the US gov't? As far as we know your request for such help was rejected by the State department. Also is there an order in the release of cable or are they randomly selected?
Thank you.



Julian Assange:
The cables we have release correspond to stories released by our main stream media partners and ourselves. They have been redacted by the journalists working on the stories, as these people must know the material well in order to write about it. The redactions are then reviewed by at least one other journalist or editor, and we review samples supplied by the other organisations to make sure the process is working.


rszopa
Annoying as it may be, the DDoS seems to be good publicity (if anything, it adds to your credibility). So is getting kicked out of AWS. Do you agree with this statement? Were you planning for it?
Thank you for doing what you are doing.



Julian Assange:
Since 2007 we have been deliberately placing some of our servers in jurisdictions that we suspected suffered a free speech deficit inorder to separate rhetoric from reality. Amazon was one of these cases.


abbeherrera
You started something that nobody can stop. The Beginning of a New World. Remember, that community is behind you and support you (from Slovakia).
Do you have leaks on ACTA?



Julian Assange:
Yes, we have leaks on the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement, a trojan horse trade agreement designed from the very beginning to satisfy big players in the US copyright and patent industries. In fact, it was WikiLeaks that first drew ACTA to the public's attention - with a leak.


people1st
Tom Flanagan, a [former] senior adviser to Canadian Prime Minister recently stated "I think Assange should be assassinated ... I think Obama should put out a contract ... I wouldn't feel unhappy if Assange does disappear."
How do you feel about this?


Julian Assange:
It is correct that Mr. Flanagan and the others seriously making these statements should be charged with incitement to commit murder.


Isopod
Julian, why do you think it was necessary to "give Wikileaks a face"? Don't you think it would be better if the organization was anonymous?
This whole debate has become very personal and reduced on you - "Julian Assange leaked documents", "Julian Assange is a terrorist", "Julian Assange alledgedly raped a woman", "Julian Assange should be assassinated", "Live Q&A qith Julian Assange" etc. Nobody talks about Wikileaks as an organization anymore. Many people don't even realize that there are other people behind Wikileaks, too.
And this, in my opinion, makes Wikileaks vulnerable because this enables your opponents to argue ad hominem. If they convince the public that you're an evil, woman-raping terrorist, then Wikileaks' credibility will be gone. Also, with due respect for all that you've done, I think it's unfair to all the other brave, hard working people behind Wikileaks, that you get so much credit.



Julian Assange:
This is an interesting question. I originally tried hard for the organisation to have no face, because I wanted egos to play no part in our activities. This followed the tradition of the French anonymous pure mathematians, who wrote under the collective allonym, "The Bourbaki". However this quickly led to tremendous distracting curiosity about who and random individuals claiming to represent us. In the end, someone must be responsible to the public and only a leadership that is willing to be publicly courageous can genuinely suggest that sources take risks for the greater good. In that process, I have become the lightening rod. I get undue attacks on every aspect of my life, but then I also get undue credit as some kind of balancing force.


tburgi
Western governments lay claim to moral authority in part from having legal guarantees for a free press.
Threats of legal sanction against Wikileaks and yourself seem to weaken this claim.
(What press needs to be protected except that which is unpopular to the State? If being state-sanctioned is the test for being a media organization, and therefore able to claim rights to press freedom, the situation appears to be the same in authoritarian regimes and the west.)
Do you agree that western governments risk losing moral authority by
attacking Wikileaks?
Do you believe western goverments have any moral authority to begin with?
Thanks,
Tim Burgi
Vancouver, Canada



Julian Assange:
The west has fiscalised its basic power relationships through a web of contracts, loans, shareholdings, bank holdings and so on. In such an environment it is easy for speech to be "free" because a change in political will rarely leads to any change in these basic instruments. Western speech, as something that rarely has any effect on power, is, like badgers and birds, free. In states like China, there is pervasive censorship, because speech still has power and power is scared of it. We should always look at censorship as an economic signal that reveals the potential power of speech in that jurisdiction. The attacks against us by the US point to a great hope, speech powerful enough to break the fiscal blockade.


rajiv1857
Hi,
Is the game that you are caught up in winnable? Technically, can you keep playing hide and seek with the powers that be when services and service providers are directly or indirectly under government control or vulnerable to pressure - like Amazon?
Also, if you get "taken out" - and that could be technical, not necessarily physical - what are the alternatives for your cache of material?
Is there a 'second line' of activists in place that would continue the campaign?
Is your material 'dispersed' so that taking out one cache would not necessarily mean the end of the game?




Julian Assange:

The Cable Gate archive has been spread, along with significant material from the US and other countries to over 100,000 people in encrypted form. If something happens to us, the key parts will be released automatically. Further, the Cable Gate archives is in the hands of multiple news organisations. History will win. The world will be elevated to a better place. Will we survive? That depends on you.


Guardian: That's it every one, thanks for all your questions and comments. Julian Assange is sorry that he can't answer every question but he has tried to cover as much territory as possible. Thanks for your patience with our earlier technical difficulties.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2010/dec/03/julian-assange-wikileaks
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 06:17 pm
@msolga,
Wouldn't it be nice if the "Taliban", Saddam, Castro, all the leaders of countries attacked by the US relentless propaganda stream could be heard, unedited, with accurate translations?

It would go far to preventing the first casualty of war being the truth.

There will be those whose knickers will twist rapidly upon reading this but really, how many years have we suffered through US, British, Australian, Canadian, ... "leaders" mouthing lie after lie, covering each others' war criminal asses.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 06:19 pm
@Ceili,
Quote:
Find what? Truth. It's out there, you just have to search for it. The releasing of these documents is unencumbered by right or left leanings, they are what they are. The unvarnished truth...


I about swallowed my tongue, Ceili. Are you the same Ceili or has someone gotten your password?
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 06:50 pm
@msolga,
A thought-provoking idea.
Quote:
The west has fiscalised its basic power relationships through a web of contracts, loans, shareholdings, bank holdings and so on. In such an environment it is easy for speech to be "free" because a change in political will rarely leads to any change in these basic instruments. Western speech, as something that rarely has any effect on power, is, like badgers and birds, free. In states like China, there is pervasive censorship, because speech still has power and power is scared of it. We should always look at censorship as an economic signal that reveals the potential power of speech in that jurisdiction. The attacks against us by the US point to a great hope, speech powerful enough to break the fiscal blockade.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 06:51 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
how many years have we suffered through US, British, Australian, Canadian, ... "leaders" mouthing lie after lie, covering each others' war criminal asses.


Well right now I am extremely disappointed in my own government. Apparently its suggestions & vague threats to the the mainstream media have worked .
To gain any real insight into what is being revealed & discussed in the Wikileaks, one must access the NYT, the Guardian, Da Spiegel, etc, etc .. and there are some very important issues which are being revealed & discussed. (Thank god for the internet, I say!)
I just checked the letters to the editor of my usual (considered "progressive") newspaper & not a single letter about what everyone is talking about. Self censorship, apparently. Some things are too dangerous for us to know about, apparently. Very sad to see.

Quote:
....Much of the local coverage has been of the judgemental variety: either that WikiLeaks has perpetrated some profoundly evil act — although so far not even the most froth-mouthed News Limited (Murdoch press) commentators have gone the way of their American idols and demanded the extra-judicial killing of Assange — or the whole thing’s rather ‘meh’ — admittedly a difficult reaction to avoid when confronted with the shock revelation that it’s not just most of the democratic world that regards Russia as a corrupt kleptocracy, the State Department does too. Well spotted, Foggy Bottom. ....

... the whole business is being treated like an espionage case: Robert McClelland has made vague threats about arresting Assange and providing “every assistance” to the United States on “law enforcement action” and a “taskforce” has been assembled to consider the implications of the material being released. More seriously, McClelland has spoken of criminal offences in relation to publishing WikiLeaks-related material and said that the media may be asked to refrain from publishing certain material on national security grounds.

It barely needs to be said that McClelland’s suggestion that media outlets might either be asked to not publish material, or might find themselves charged if they do, appears to entirely miss that this is no longer 1985 and media executives are no longer the information gatekeepers they once were, even if they were inclined to cooperate.

The Cold War analog doesn’t work because, even if they weren’t moral equivalents, the two Cold War players were mirrors in their goals and apparati and had a dense, mutually-agreed set of rules to play by. WikiLeaks, however, is actively subverting any rules, far more asymmetric and nebulous even than the Islamofascist terrorism threat used so successfully to maintain the national security state in the absence of our Cold War enemies.

Dorothy, we’re not in West Berlin anymore. ....


http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/12/03/like-mp3s-wikileaks-will-change-govt-so-why-has-everyone-missed-the-point/
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 06:52 pm
@hingehead,
Thought provoking, indeed!
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 07:10 pm
@JTT,
Another veiled insult?? lol
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 07:13 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
Wouldn't it be nice if the "Taliban", Saddam, Castro, all the leaders of countries attacked by the US relentless propaganda stream could be heard, unedited, with accurate translations?
Of course these people are not human let alone poiliticians so anything they say MUST be true. Or your whole agenda is pointless whinging.

Quote:
It would go far to preventing the first casualty of war being the truth.
Enough humuor. Try to be serious.

Quote:
how many years have we suffered
I dont know but if you are in good health I think we will have to suffer some more yet.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 07:31 pm
@msolga,
Thanks for the copy -- I'd been following the guardian interview earlier in the day (to the extent I could, there were tech difficulties) but got involved in monitoring my cooking of what I now think of as a giant chicken. (oh, never mind)

I see his process re the redactions more fully now.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 07:32 pm
There has been much made in the press (certainly in my own country!) about Julian Assange's "outlaw" status, implying he is some sort of evil "criminal" on the run from the law, who must be apprehended a "brought to justice" .....
Personally, I feel this sort of focus on Assange in the media (criminal or modern day cult hero, depending where you stand) has detracted from the far more important issues raised by the leaks themselves. (But maybe that's exactly the intention? Wink )

But anyway ... I decided to try & find out as much as I could about Julian Assange's "wanted" situation and here’s the best I can come up with at this point in time.:

There’s a Red alert for the apprehension for Julian Assange by Interpol.
What does a “red notice” mean, anyway?


Quote:
An Interpol Red Notice is not an international arrest warrant.

The persons concerned are wanted by national jurisdictions (or the International Criminal Tribunals, where appropriate) and Interpol's role is to assist the national police forces in identifying or locating those persons with a view to their arrest and extradition.

These red notices allow the warrant to be circulated worldwide with the request that the wanted person be arrested with a view to extradition.
A distinction is drawn between two types of red notice: the first type is based on an arrest warrant and is issued for a person wanted for prosecution; the second type is based on a court decision for a person wanted to serve a sentence.

Warning
The person should be considered innocent until proven guilty. ...<cont>


http://www.interpol.int/public/wanted/default.asp

So there is now an Interpol red alert for the arrest of Julian Assange, for “sex crimes” in Sweden. Here’s what one of his lawyers had to say about these charges. I posted this here a couple of days ago, including:

Quote:
A great deal more damning evidence is yet to be revealed about what passes for legal process in Sweden, such as Assange’s lawyers having not received a single official document until November 18, 2010 (and then in Swedish language contrary to European Law) and having to learn about the status of investigations through prosecution media announcements but make no mistake: it is not Julian Assange that is on trial here but Sweden and its reputation as a modern and model country with rules of law.


http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/12/02/when-it-comes-to-assange-r-pe-case-the-swedes-are-making-it-up-as-they-go-along/

(If you didn’t read what I posted before, then you’ll have to read the article to see why that conclusion was reached by one of his lawyers)

But does this Interpol Red Notice have anything at all to do with the Wikileaks?

No. Nothing what-so-ever to do with the leaks. (Though the timing of the Interpol Red Notice is rather impeccable, isn’t it?)

Julian Assange & his supporters have consistently maintained that he has been set up & his lawyers have repeatedly claimed that he has been available to speak to the Swedish authorities about the rape charges.

So let’s see what eventuates. Will he be arrested & brought to trial in Sweden? Who knows? But there'll certainly be a lot of interest in that trial, if it ever eventuates.

msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 07:41 pm
@ossobuco,
My pleasure, osso.
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 08:02 pm
@Ionus,
You sound just like h20man, Ionus. Where is this "guy with great thoughts" who could, with the use of a online editor produce some great writing? He's yet to show his face here, capital W "writer".
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 08:04 pm
@Ceili,
You can't insult by telling the truth. You were being a hypocrite. And that's not normally you.
JTT
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 08:09 pm
@msolga,
Quote:
An Interpol Red Notice is not an international arrest warrant.

The persons concerned are wanted by national jurisdictions (or the International Criminal Tribunals, where appropriate)


I trust that Bush, Cheney and the rest of the neocon war criminals are on the list.

Quote:
So there is now an Interpol red alert for the arrest of Julian Assange, for “sex crimes” in Sweden.


They're lining up to fellate Uncle Sam.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 08:12 pm
@JTT,
No, they're not.
But some of the folk on the list make Julian Assange look like a pussycat, JTT.
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 08:14 pm
@JTT,
Dear JustaThickTraitor....do yourself a favour and look up the rules for using capital letters.

Quote:
Where is this "guy with great thoughts"
It is I, your current interlocutor. I am suprised you havent fitted the USA war crimes into my spelling mistakes. Clearly they ARE related. Right ?
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 08:16 pm
@JTT,
It seems there is no end of people who disagree with you.

Have you been spitting out your medication after nursey leaves again ??? Bad bitch !
0 Replies
 
 

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