1
   

Manded mission to Mars or elsewhere in our solar system

 
 
neil
 
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 07:59 pm
That means an active refrigeration system. Hydrogen has to be the coldest, so it becomes the basis of the cooling system. Forced through a series of microscopic diffusers, Hydrogen Atoms are very small, it expands, expelled through a nozzle and gets even colder, basically a computer chip that exhausts LH2 = liquid hydrogen
Refrigeration takes little power, just a steady flow through the system.

Boiling point
CO - 81K
CH4 - 111K
H2 - 20K
O2 - 90K
Liquid Density @ Boiling point
CO - 788 g/L
CH4 - 422 g/L
H2 - 71 g/L
O2 - 1141 g/L

I suspect the change to solid boosters was political and military rather than because of performance after lift off. The main disadvantage of liquid hydrogen is 20 degrees k = 36 degrees rankine which is the familiar fahrenheit scale shifted to a zero of absolute zero. I presume the boiling point is a few degrees colder in vacuum, and only a few degrees warmer even under high pressure. Problem two is the density of liquid hydrogen is 0.5, lower than any other liquid or solid, so the energy is lower than some other fuels by volume. even though it is the front runner by weight. Volume does increase air resistance in Earth's atmosphere, but is almost irrelevant in the very thin atmosphere of Mars. The third problem with hydrogen is: it leaks rapidly though openings that produce negligible loss of all other fuels. We could reach Mars and discover we lost most of the hydrogen enroute, inspite of rigorous precautions. Hydrogen is not toxic to humans, except as it dilutes the available oxygen. Methane CH4 produces symptoms at about 1% and carbon monoxide CO at about one ppm (part per million) Both are deadly at high concentrations and the fire hazard is about the same for all 3. The tank to hold the hydrogen is less than twice as heavy as the tank to hold other propellents, and the oxygen. Thermal insulation is not very heavy, but it does increase air resistance, and it can damage shuttle tiles (and other delicate structures) if some insulation breaks off.
On Mars 1000 square meters = 10,000 square feet of photovoltaic panels would take years to electroloize water to enough hydrogen and oxygen to return to Earth: Forever with typical hydrogen leakage losses. Problems are the best electrolysis equipment converts about half of the electricity input to low grade heat and the electolizers have almost as much mass as the 1000 square meters of photovoltaic panels. It likely is not practical to fabricate anything for the first return trip from Mars on Mars, and not much even in a permanent Mars colony.
Can the return to Earth craft lift off with gas hydrogen under pressure instead of liquid hydrogen? maybe if the hydrogen tanks are made from CNT = carbon nano tubes which may soon be available, with a slight chance that the huge tanks could be fabricated from Martian carbon. Neil
  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 915 • Replies: 5
No top replies

 
Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Dec, 2003 09:38 pm
All this is nice but before any of this is seriously considered the problem of human exposure to deep space radiation needs to be solved and as the NYT reported last week we are nowhere near addressing that problem.
0 Replies
 
Mr Stillwater
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Dec, 2003 10:14 pm
There IS no free water on Mars. And the weight of 1,000 square metres of photo-voltaic panels would be prohibitively expensive.

I'd direct your attention to the ion engines usedin DeepSpace1, NASA - DeepSpace1
0 Replies
 
NeoGuin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2003 06:21 am
I still say we should put this money towards reducing our reliance on fossil fuels.

Alas, as long as the Oil companies still have control of the WH--never happen.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2003 08:48 am
I'd love to see us send manned expeditions to other planets -- and perhaps one day we will.

My guess is the Chinese will do it at some point.

My other guess is that the politicians of the United States do not have the spine or foresight to even come close.
0 Replies
 
Jim
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 11:29 am
Given our current level of technology, exploration with unmanned probes is probably the safest and most cost effective method. Today.

The situation seems similar to Antarctic exploration. One hundred years ago it was just barely possible for people to reach the South Pole, but it took years, and many men died in the attempt. It wasn't until a generation or two later that advances in aviation made our current level of exploration possible. I suspect that manned exploration of space will follow a similar path.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Evolution 101 - Discussion by gungasnake
Typing Equations on a PC - Discussion by Brandon9000
The Future of Artificial Intelligence - Discussion by Brandon9000
The well known Mind vs Brain. - Discussion by crayon851
Scientists Offer Proof of 'Dark Matter' - Discussion by oralloy
Blue Saturn - Discussion by oralloy
Bald Eagle-DDT Myth Still Flying High - Discussion by gungasnake
DDT: A Weapon of Mass Survival - Discussion by gungasnake
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Manded mission to Mars or elsewhere in our solar system
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 05/11/2024 at 06:16:19