Good Religion, Bad Religion

Religion is the vision of something which stands beyond, behind, and within, the passing flux of immediate things; something which is real, and yet waiting to be realized; something which is a remote possibility, and yet the greatest of present facts; something that gives meaning to all that passes, and yet eludes apprehesion; something whose possession is the final good, and yet is beyond all reach; something which is the ultimate ideal, and the hopeless quest.

A(lfred) N(orth) Whitehead
Science and the Modern World [1953] page 234

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It would be nice to think that somewhere in the world amongst all the self serving and narcissistic religions there is still left some religion worth believing in.

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@RexRed,

RexRed wrote:

It would be nice to think that somewhere in the world amongst all the self serving and narcissistic religions there is still left some religion worth believing in.

I believe in these words written by Sting...

"Men go crazy in congregations, they only get better one by one."

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@RexRed,

Agreeing with Chai's post below this one that the best way to find spirituality is through a lone pursuit. Where religions come in handy is when you can find one that offers group support and encouragement towards those individual pursuits, social opportunities without judgment for your beliefs, application of their energies to worthy causes, and opportunities to partake in ritual practices and celebrations as you choose. I'd say the Unitarians meet that in a non-dogmatic, non-creedal, non-denominational way (they draw from all faith traditions). My understanding of the Unity faith is that they are very similar but focus on Christian roots.

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@saab,

saab wrote:

Unitarianism is a nontrinitarian Christian theology which holds that God is only one Person, in contrast to the doctrine of the Trinity (God as three Persons in the unity of one Godhead)

Unitarianism (capitalized) has come to be associated with certain liberal Christian beliefs. The uncapitalized term, unitarianism, while denoting adherence to the teaching of the singularness of God, includes beliefs generally similar to those of conservative, evangelical Christians (apart from the Trinity). This form of unitarianism is more commonly called nontrinitarianism. There are also nontrinitarians who maintain that God is a single person, but also that Jesus is that God, and who therefore are distinct from unitarians, who reject the divinity of Jesus.

This is true historically, and perhaps still true in European Unitarian churches but the Unitarians merger with the Universalists here and created the UUA. They're principles are:

Quote:

There are seven principles which Unitarian Universalist congregations affirm and promote:

* The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
* Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
* Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
* A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
* The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
* The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
* Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

Unitarian Universalism (UU) draws from many sources:

* Direct experience of that transcending mystery and wonder, affirmed in all cultures, which moves us to a renewal of the spirit and an openness to the forces which create and uphold life;
* Words and deeds of prophetic women and men which challenge us to confront powers and structures of evil with justice, compassion, and the transforming power of love;
* Wisdom from the world's religions which inspires us in our ethical and spiritual life;
* Jewish and Christian teachings which call us to respond to God's love by loving our neighbors as ourselves;
* Humanist teachings which counsel us to heed the guidance of reason and the results of science, and warn us against idolatries of the mind and spirit.
* Spiritual teachings of earth-centered traditions which celebrate the sacred circle of life and instruct us to live in harmony with the rhythms of nature.

These principles and sources of faith are the backbone of our religious community. Source and web site

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Religion teaches confusion. That's the reason for all the chaos in humanity which doesn't reflect in any way what they are supposed to teach their followers - that most call morals. How many humans do you know who profess to be one religion or another, and yet practice discrimination, hatred, killing, and divisiveness? I would venture to say over 99%.

Look at the US political system that's supposed to be made up of over 80% christians. Do we get along?

Do we observe love or hate?

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@RexRed,

You can find religion self serving and narcissistic, but it is not only religion.
Do you really think politics is much better? The ideas within a party might be good but how does it develope - not better than religion.
There are so many movements in the world and some are good and some are bad-
Ypu simply have to pick the best here and there.....

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@cicerone imposter,

How many humans do you know who profess to be one religion or another, and yet practice discrimination, hatred, killing, and divisiveness? I would venture to say over 99%.
---------------------------------------------------------------

I would say that there are much less than 99%,
But from your answer I can see that atheists have a tendency to generalize and say everyone connected with religion is practicing discrimination.
That is exactly what you are doing now to religious people.

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@saab,

saab. When I said "venture to say" it's because it's the impression I have about religion and how they treat other humans.

Like my sister who is a christian tells me, she loves homosexuals, but don't approve of their lifestyle. Many like-minded christians also will defeat any equal rights legislation for gays and lesbians or to approve "gay marriage." If they loved them, how can they discriminate against them? Why is the word "marriage" sacred to christians? Isn't equal rights more important? Besides, can you show me how and why "marriage is sacred?" I believe over 50% of marriages of heterosexual couples end up in divorce. What's so sacred about marriage?

Most wars of this world have been based on religion(s). Our country, a professed christian one, have started wars in Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, and Afghanistan - and many more through the CIA. How many innocents have we killed?

Can you tell us any different?

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@cicerone imposter,

First of there is a difference in accepting homosexual civil marriages and church weddings. Do you think Muslims accept homosexual marriages?
Marriage was called sacred not only for the religion, but also in Christianity to give the women a security. A man could not just divorce a woman and throw her out of the house. Marriage for a religious person is in the moment they marry sacred, but things can go wrong and that is why even in Christian countries the law is now so that we have the right to divorce.

Most wars are religous wars? Can you prove that? Is it not much more a war of politics?

In the comprehensive list of the history of human warfare, in the Encyclopedia of Wars by Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod documents 1763 wars, of which 123 (7%) have been classified to involve a religious conflict. Of these 123, 66 wars involved Islam.

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@saab,

saab wrote:

First of there is a difference in accepting homosexual civil marriages and church weddings. Do you think Muslims accept homosexual marriages?
Marriage was called sacred not only for the religion, but also in Christianity to give the women a security. A man could not just divorce a woman and throw her out of the house. Marriage for a religious person is in the moment they marry sacred, but things can go wrong and that is why even in Christian countries the law is now so that we have the right to divorce.

Most wars are religous wars? Can you prove that? Is it not much more a war of politics?

In the comprehensive list of the history of human warfare, in the Encyclopedia of Wars by Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod documents 1763 wars, of which 123 (7%) have been classified to involve a religious conflict. Of these 123, 66 wars involved Islam.

Saab in these days of liberation and equal rights a woman can divorce a man and throw him out of the house too and collect alimony...

What makes it any more or less sacred for a man than a woman or two men or two women?

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@RexRed,

I think that every couple should have the right to secure their partner.
As so many heterosexual do not marry they should - just as any homosexual couple - secure their partner with a will.
I have nothing against a civil marriage service for homosexual partners,
When it comes to church weddings I see it differently. For many Christians homosexuallity is not a basis for a church marriage as it is supposed to be between a man and a woman.
Now homosexuals feel discriminated and not respected. But so does the church people. So why can´t homosexuals just as many heterosexuals have a civil service for their wedding?

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@saab,

By the way we are supposed to respect other people´s feelings and ideas.
I don´t smoke in other people´s home.
I don´t ask for meat when visiting a vegetarian. I don´t even tell I don´t like the vegetarian food.
I don´t expect pork meat when visiting a Muslim or Jew.
I don´t expect alcohol in a family which is against alcohol.
The list is endless, but as soon as it comes to religion people think they can walk into the church and just demand what they want.
When it comes to religion we seem to not to have to respect feelings and traditions as all.
Chances has gone on in religion for centuries, but it comes slowly and it will come.

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@saab,

We're talking about the US, not the Middle East. We are also not talking about how religions practice their faith. We are talking about the US Constitution's equal rights clause. You are one confused dude!

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@saab,

Yes, most wars are religious wars. Where did you learn history?

Here's a link through Google about religious wars:
http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/history-of-religion.html

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I think a lot of good can come from religion and churches/ other organized places of worship. I've never been religious or a member of a church/temple/other, but I was close to a family growing up that was very active in their (Lutheran I think) church. This was a very progressive, politically active church. They did things like help Ethiopian immigrants (help them come to Minnesota, get them settled, find places for them to stay including taking them into their own homes, etc.), and did a whole lot of stuff around hunger, here and abroad.

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@cicerone imposter,

most of the time it is not the religion which is the major cause of war, but other interests particularly Economic and financial benifits,yet there are certain other factors as well.
and according to historians only a fraction of wars are caused by religion - that is how I learned history from a very good historian teacher.
Namecalling is not very polite, but something people do when they want to prove they are right when they are wrong,

AND THERE IS NO REASON TO CALL ME A CONFUSED DUDE:

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@sozobe,

It is not only the Lutheran Church helping - it is almost every denomination with a few exceptions.
Just think about what the Salvation Army is doing for the poor.
All the care packages sent to Germany after the war from USA.
Hospitals,orphanges, schools many of these institutions are buildt in poor countries to help people to a better life.
I would like to know why more help is coming to Pakistan just now from Christian countries than from the rich in Pakistan - percentual?
Danmission in Denmark was founded 1821 and is still going strong with helping not only in poor countries but also in Denmark.

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@saab,

saab, Did you just ignore the link I provided that shows the connection of religions to wars? "A very good historian teacher" lacks any qualification or standard except your own. Learning must come from more than one source for it to be "real" learning; or haven't you learned that simple logic?

You are a "confused dude" who still haven't learned what real education is about. If you have, you would be able to challenge the history of religion and their concomitant wars of the past 5,000 years as delineated by that link.

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@cicerone imposter,

Did you ignore the link I provided?

In the comprehensive list of the history of human warfare, in the Encyclopedia of Wars by Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod documents 1763 wars, of which 123 (7%) have been classified to involve a religious conflict. Of these 123, 66 wars involved Islam.

Learning must come from more than one source for it to be "real" learning; or haven't you learned that simple logic? Have you ?

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Good Religion, Bad Religion

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