5
   

Are you an out-of-the-box thinker?

 
 
Glennn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2018 05:17 pm
@vikorr,
Oh, well in that case, I'm good at solving chess problems. Why do you ask?

Are you going to say that people who are good at solving chess problems are out-of-the-b0x thinkers? Cuz if you are, I sure wouldn't have seen that coming.
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2018 06:15 pm
@Glennn,
No, it was a general comment on problem solving, some of the skills & and some of the traps related to trying to solve a problem - which are somewhat related to 'being able to think out of the box'.

- tunnel vision: is one of the easiest traps to fall for (even in chess), and is directly related to not being able to think out of the box. It is not looking wide enough (focusing on certain pieces, or certain parts of the board), not accounting for all contributing factors (pieces, usually pawns). In general problem solving, tunnel vision can be caused by the aim, the question, or the immediate problem (when there's are wider issues), or a thing just always being done a particular way before. All 'out of the box' thinking requires the avoidance of tunnel vision.

- cause & affect: 'if I do X, then A, B, and C are possible consequences. In most problem solving, people only go 'if I do A, then B will happen'. That isn't always the case, but the reason for thinking this way is related to tunnel vision. Then the question is asked 'can you project cause and effect further than one level?' (see next)

- flow on effect / domino effect : what is the likely outcome several times removed? In chess, this is a logical problem solving exercise that also requires good visualisation skills. In the subjective space (people) it requires understanding of people, understanding of cause and effect, while visualisation is a little less important (but usually problems are a combination of subjective & logical problem solving)

There are other ways to phrase such chess problem solving requirements - that was off the top of my head. The reason for asking the question was that a number of comments in the thread:
- I didn't consider to be out of the box thinking
- others reminded me of tunnel vision issues,
- while others like BBB's original post reminded me of the need in chess to look for consequences several moves ahead
- even comments from Fido and Dyslexia seemed relatable

It seemed bemusing to me that such a topic had so many posts that were relatable to chess problem solving.
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2018 07:05 pm
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:

You haven't thought beyond the obvious before responding. Would I really want just a 'yes I'm good' answer to the question I asked? Why then would I ask such a question? How does my question relate to the thread (and it does relate)?

In such a case, in responding how you did, there's little that can be said other than 'that's hardly the point of the question'. The rest was a correction to 'everyone who played chess would answer yes'.



Wow! That's pretty patronizing considering you popped a really arbitrary question regarding chess in a nonchess related thread that's also particularly very inactive for most of seven years. That when someone who sincerely has come by to see if they could help answer your offhanded question, you pretty much go on the attack.
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2018 07:33 pm
@tsarstepan,
Quote:
That's pretty patronizing considering

Odd, Glennn didn't find it patronising. He initially thought I was having a go at him, and asked what the problem was. I explained otherwise. He accepted it. You for some reason, continue to take offence, though if on the basis of below, you seem to take offence rather too easily.
Quote:
you popped a really arbitrary question regarding chess in a nonchess related thread

How is the question arbitrary? It contained the words chess 'problem solving' (which can be a very complex) in a problem solving thread - as all 'out of the box' thinking relates to problem solving (and any read through the thread shows talk of problem solving).

And as this is a thread is about 'out of the box thinking', no one in it should take offence about an expectation that one look beyond the very obvious / surface.
Quote:
that's also particularly very inactive for most of seven years.

The length of time a thread is inactive is irrelevant when people have recently posted in it, especially to a topic that is not time sensitive (like say, relationship or politics questions).
Quote:
That when someone who sincerely has come by to see if they could help answer your offhanded question, you pretty much go on the attack.
By saying he missed the point of the question? Or by correcting something that was incorrect?
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2018 09:05 pm
@vikorr,
When I was twenty, my buddy Bruce bought a bag of weed from a guy named Steve. While we were smoking a joint from the bag, it did nothing but snap, crackle, and pop like a bowl of Rice Krispies on steroids. You actually had to hold a hand in front of your eyes when you took a hit because of the exploding seeds. Halfway through the joint, Bruce had had enough. He dumped the bag out on the table and separated the seeds from the weed. What should have been an ounce turned out to be just under a half.

The next day, we both walked back up town looking for Steve. He wasn't hard to find because he drove an old Hearse with WIDOW MAKER painted on the side. Bruce saw the Hearse and flagged him down. I kept my distance while Bruce walked to where Steve had pulled over. I could tell by Bruce's body language that things weren't going well. After about five minutes Bruce turned away from the window and walked away as Steve drove off.

I asked Bruce what the deal was, and he said that Steve told him that he can't give him his money back because he spent it on bills. I asked him if he asked if he could exchange the bag he got for a different bag. He said Steve told him that all the bags were the same, and that he couldn't do the exchange right then anyway because he never carries more than an ounce at a time, and he had just sold the one he was carrying. Bruce thought all was lost. But not me. It was Friday, and everyone was in town on Friday night, either hanging out in front of the Dibble's store, or cruising back and forth on Main Street. So I reminded Bruce that if Steve keeps his weed at home, and Steve is going to be cruising town as he does every Friday night . . . That's all it took. Bruce looked at me and smiled.

Steve lived about a mile out of town. So we waited until sunset and headed out for Steve's house. When a car would come, we hid in the ditch until it passed. When we got there, we had to cross a ditch with water in it to get in his yard. The windows weren't locked. Bruce opened the living room window and said he'd keep watch while I went in and looked for the weed. I looked everywhere, but no weed. Bruce couldn't believe it, and so he crawled in through the window and started looking everywhere. He found a BB pistol and stuck it in his pants. He saw a pot plant in a window sill and put it outside the window we crawled through.

Then he said we'd better go, and he crawled back through the window. But I wasn't done looking. There were places I didn't look that started popping into my head. I heard a little dog barking, and then I heard Bruce say in a hushed but urgent tone, "Let's go!" Then I heard a splash, which meant that Bruce didn't even take the time to cross the ditch where the water was low enough to jump over. So I reached into my pants pocket and pulled out a handful of pot seeds and threw them all over the living room. Then I dove out the window.

When I got to my feet the sound of that little dog was just around the corner of the house, and there was a flashlight beam on the ground. So I took off running and splashed through the ditch like Bruce did. The guy was Steve's neighbor who became suspicious when he saw the light in the house, but no WIDOW MAKER in the driveway. He was hollering, "Hold it! Get back here."

I have to take a time-out here to say how ridiculous it is for someone to tell a running criminal to stop and come back. How many crooks running from the scene of a crime have ever stopped and went back when instructed to do so? I mean, come-on!

I could hear the clicking of Bruce's heels on the road ahead of me. I caught up to him and said we should stop and walk. He was carrying the pot plant
as he was running. We were heavy smokers of weed and tobacco and were learning the hard way just how much of an effect those things had on one's endurance even when young. We were just getting our wind back when we saw a headlight coming from Steve's house. Apparently Steve's neighbor was in his car, and that car had a spotlight. And then another car had its headlights shining our way, and then another.

We knew we could make our way back to town and then through backyards before the cops could respond if the guy called them, but we never counted on the whole ******* neighborhood mobilizing to hunt us down. And now the cars--four of them--were heading towards us. Bruce dropped the pot plant on the road. We didn't stand a chance on the road, and so we headed into a farmer's field off to our left. It was a muddy field; the kind of mud that cakes and sticks to your boots.

So there were, huffing and puffing and running with what felt like ten pounds of mud on each foot. And the neighbors-turned-cops were now stopped where we had turned into the field with their car headlights pointing at us. So we both got down in the push-up position against the ground hoping that they wouldn't see us. It worked. They went farther down the road. We got back on our feet and walked over a rise in the field where they couldn't see us anymore. We shook the mud from our hands and headed through the worst brush ever to get back to town.

When we got back to Bruce's place, he plopped down in a kitchen chair and didn't even light up a cigarette. He said, "We're gonna have to lay low for awhile."

I said, "No, we gotta change clothes and wash our boots off and then get up town and hang out in front of Dibble's."

Bruce just nodded. So we changed clothes and washed our boots in the tub and hurried back up town to sit on the window ledge at Dibble's. We waved to everyone we knew who was cruising town and we were talking with others. When we waved to the cops as they went by, they waved back. That's when we knew it was all gonna be okay. Bruce said he was worried about the cops finding clues in Steve's house, but I told him I threw a handful of seeds in his living room, and that he wasn't likely to say that anything was missing since the cops would see the seeds and probably really search the place after that. Of course, we don't know how the smashed plant-pot with the pot plant in the middle of the road went over, but Steve didn't go to jail, so . . .

I only bring this up to show that even forty years ago I was thinking outside the box when I took the seeds to throw in his living room, and when I decided we should hurry up and get back up town to be seen, so that no one--not even Steve--would suspect us. In both cases, I was looking ahead.
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2018 09:10 pm
@vikorr,
Quote:
Odd, Glennn didn't find it patronising.

The hell I didn't!
Quote:
He accepted it.

The hell I did!

Smile
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2018 09:32 pm
@vikorr,
Quote:
He initially thought I was having a go at him, and asked what the problem was.

I initially thought that you were asking if anyone was good at solving chess problems because you were going to present a chess problem whose solution would require thinking outside the box. And so I asked you what the problem is.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  2  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2018 09:54 pm
@Glennn,
Ah.

Btw, that was a pretty good story....not so sure bout the criminal activity, but the story was good Very Happy
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jun, 2018 02:06 am
I guess Steve didn’t own a vacuum cleaner?

Did he have a girlfriend? You know she had one. See? That’s how wimminz think.

I had a boyfriend named Steve who would come over to borrow my vacuum. Maybe the same guy.
Wait, probably not. My Steve cleaned his weed really good.

I thought the same thing Glenn, about the neighbor yelling Hey come back here! Weirdo.
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jun, 2018 07:38 am
@chai2,
Sure, Steve had a vacuum cleaner. And if he was very diligent in his vacuuming, he might get every seed out of his carpet and off his couch and easy chair and other furnishings. He might. But like all other stoner weed dealers, I'm pretty sure that the last thing Steve wanted was to have the cops in his house carefully looking for clues.
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jun, 2018 08:01 am
@vikorr,
Quote:
not so sure bout the criminal activity

What criminal activity? The only real criminal that night was Steve. He ripped Bruce off for approximately ten dollars, which in 1975 was a lot of money. All we really did was find him guilty of theft, and then attempted to fine him heavily for his crime.

I suppose we could have called the cops and told them that Steve sold us a bag of weed that was half seeds, and then show it to them to prove our point, but that wouldn't have been a very good example of thinking outside the box, now would it? Smile
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jun, 2018 09:12 am
@Glennn,
Btw I thought that was a great story and thoroughly enjoyed the picture painted
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jun, 2018 03:34 pm
@chai2,
Thanks.

I got tired just thinking about trying to run through that muddy field. But all's well that ends well. But we didn't get the weed. So, all's not really all that well. Oh well.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jun, 2018 04:33 pm
@Glennn,
Oh I understood why you broke into his house. I even think he deserved it - what he did was criminal. And breaking into his house is criminal activity too, which is why the neighbours chased you, and you ran Laughing

As I said, a good story.
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jun, 2018 05:31 pm
@vikorr,
Of course I was joking about Steve being the only criminal that night. Bruce and I were criminals, too . . . insofar as it's illegal to take the law into your own hands. The next time something like that happens, I will simply contact the Better Business Bureau, and they will put the Steve wannabe on notice. And if that didn't convince the bastard to settle up, then I would promptly file a small claim against him in court and get every gram of weed that's coming to me. And in all likelihood, the judge would fine him several grams, payable to me!
0 Replies
 
 

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