How did you educate yourself if you couldn't go to college?

BBB

I think you need to read dys' statement again.

Education is the bridge.
Edgar has crossed that bridge.

I think dys would agree with me that lots of people with a formal education aren't educated. Any fool can memorize what is in a text book or what an instructor recited. Education is required to put it to work outside the narrow area where it was memorized.


The best teacher will always be one that instills a desire to learn.

I think employers see a 4 year degree as an easy way to judge if the person can stick to something for an extended period. It's laziness on the part of the employer more than anything else. It has little to do with what they actually know since any new employee will require training.

and apprenticeships!

yes, of course.

I agree with most of what you wrote, and I thank you for your advice.

I guess I see it differently because I think some elitist snobby educated people enjoy putting people down and in their place in a bullying manner.

BBB

really, which ones?

this sounds like a rant...

For once I agree with you.

BBB

Haven't you ever known such people?

BBB

sure, I just never attributed it to their educations...

Well, I've known a lot of them. It took nearly two years before the doctor's in the Union I worked for would accept me as a competent person, probably because I was a woman, and not a doctor with their education and I was not a lawyer.

I organized and represented all of the doctors who worked for the State of California and eight counties in the State. These doctors respected me right away. It was the doctors in private practice that took so long to convince them of my expertise. I never gave up and eventually won them over. They sent me around the country to speak to doctors about what we could do for them, and they joined our union.

After ten years, I had to leave the union because of a severe knee injury that crippled me so much that I could no longer do the walking required.

BBB

Well, I've known a lot of them. It took nearly two years before the doctor's in the Union I worked for would accept me as a competent person, probably because I was a woman, and not a doctor with their education. I organized and represented all of the doctors who worked for the State of California and eight counties in the State. These doctors respected me right away. It was the doctors in private practice that took so long to convince them of my expertise. I never gave up and eventually won them over. They sent me around the country to speak to doctors about what we could do for them, and they joined our union.

After ten years, I had to leave the union because I had a serious knee injury that crippled me to the point that I couldn't do the walking required.

BBB

and this was a product of their educations?

(sorry about your knee)

I also see that some people without formal educations are quick to assume that those with a degree are too smart, too educated, too something for them. A kind of reverse elitism that's annoying and insulting.

Sure, they often told me they were entitled people. Oh, the stories I could tell you about why they became doctors.

BBB

these were your friends, or folks you didn't like...?

This took place in the 1970s and 1980s.

There is a big difference between the young idealistic doctors just starting out and the older doctors.

BBB

I'd say that would prolly be true of all professions...

I suppose some might feel that way, but I've always sought out smart people to learn from. It's when they become bully put-downers that are unbearable.

BBB

I'm thinking you owe Edgar an apology.

I've known both, but about five times as many of the kind Roberta describes.

I left college at the beginning of my senior year. I'd been a Commercial Art major in the '70s (before it became "Graphic Design" or "Communications.") I'd already taken all the courses that would apply to my field. The only ones I had left were some upper level fine arts courses that were required because it was an Art degree. I didn't see why I should pay money to take advanced sculpture and the like when I wanted to do publication work. I lucked into a job where they paid me while they taught me print production skills. A year and a half later, I was producing ads, brochures, newsletters, and even a seminannual magazine. The job launched me into freelance work much more effectively than the degree ever would have. There were a million college graduates out there looking for jobs with nothing but classroom design assignments in their portfolio. I had real pieces, produced on budget, on deadline, and experience in recruiting other specialists to help. I never looked back.

After freelancing for a short while, I realized I needed to develop writing skills, then I decided I needed to take business courses (took at least 2 years' worth.) So I am one of those people who has more college hours than anyone would need for a degree, but no degree.

It hasn't mattered...largely because of the field. No one has ever asked me if I have a degree. They only wanted to see samples of my work. I'm now teaching in a small private school, and they don't even care. My work speaks for itself. Those who know me know that I've never let a lack of qualifications stop me from doing anything I want to do.

That said, I wouldn't trade my college experiences for anything. They expanded my view of the world, and my possibilities for becoming a part of it. My father always said, "Real education teaches you HOW to think, not WHAT to think." He was right. That is what it did for me.