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Wal-Mart signifies all that is wrong in America

 
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Feb, 2004 12:39 pm
You could say its collectivism.
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2004 01:01 pm
This article, from today's Seattle Times, sums the issue up nicely:

"Wal-Mart: The Race to the Bottom"

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2001859432_floyd18.html
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2004 04:49 pm
Great piece.

I'll guarantee all the convervative elitists I know here in Orange County would not be caught dead in Wal-Mart.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2004 04:51 pm
I do have to admit my local Wal-Mart has a decent nursery section but I don't find their prices are all that much lower than the independent nursery I often drive much farther to visit. The quality of their nursery stock is not dependable either.
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2004 05:17 pm
I can imagine why their nursery isn't that good. The cheapest merchandise isn't always the best, especially when it comes to living things!
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2004 05:29 pm
Wal-Mart like Home Depot and other major chains have brand names of electronics, appliances etc. that are basically "stripped down." If one were to check the model numbers of items including tools of what is offered at these warehouse stores and tried to shop it on line, they would find that they can't often find that model and when they do, the online price is cheaper than Wal-Mart. I know that Home Depot has brand name halogen lamps for instance but they are not their mainline product but one made in Indonesia and China. These lamps will not meet the national electric standards and how they are making it onto shelves are beyond me. They lie like Hell about the lamp life which when reading the fine print is lower than a quality lamp at not much more money. The lamps won't even average out as lasting as long as what is printed on the box. So in consequence one is buying two or three of their lamps against one quality lamp at the inconvenience of changing the lamp more often. They bank of people not remembering when they installed the lamp.
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Tantor
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Feb, 2004 03:33 am
D'artagnan wrote:
This article, from today's Seattle Times, sums the issue up nicely:

"Wal-Mart: The Race to the Bottom"

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2001859432_floyd18.html


This is a thoroughly unimpressive article written by an economically illiterate journalism professor in Seattle. I'm hard pressed to think of a position more sure to be had by a radical lefty than a journalism professor at a university in Seattle. The article shows the lefty bias.

I'm touched by the professor's concern for his aunt who had to drive miles to the Walmart outside her little Iowa town. However, here's a reality check from someone who worked in a little grocery store in a small Iowa town: Everyone drives to the store, especially little old ladies.

The parking lot of a small town store is the same size as that of a city store because everyone drives in America. Small town, big town, no difference. If anything, small town shoppers in Iowa drive more because it's a long walk from the farms. So this concern about people having to drive further for the Walmart is bogus.

The professor's rage against low prices seems a pretty odd argument to make, too. Yes, low prices are good. Low prices means that your wage is worth more. The fact is that the old mom & pop stores in small towns charged you more because they had higher relative overhead. People run to shop at Walmarts because they can buy a greater variety of products at a discount.

The professor's rage against forty labor law cases seems a pretty weak attack as well. Forty lawsuits against a giant enterprise like Walmart is small potatoes. That sounds like a relatively well run business. And of course, many of these lawsuits will turn out to be bogus.

The most intellectually dishonest argument the professor makes is that gap between the rich and poor is widening with the rich getting richer at the expense of the poor who are getting poorer. First, a gap between the rich and poor is good. There are some people who work harder and smarter than the rest and they deserve what they earn. It would be an immoral society that levelled the difference in income, stealing the wages of the hard-working to give to those who refuse to work.

The second dishonest point the professor makes is that there are permanent classes of rich and poor, that the poor of ten years ago are the poor of today and they are getting poorer. In fact, there is tremendous turnover of the rich and poor. Most poor move up. Most rich fall down. Only 2% of those people in the lowest quintile of income will remain there twenty years later. The overwhelming majority of them move up into the middle class and beyond.

The fact that the professor leaves out is that one reason the stats for the poorest people in America seem worse is that we are importing poverty from Mexico. Many of the poorest in America are immigrants who arrived poor. The professor ignores this and argues that it is American capitalism that makes Americans poorer when in fact it's American capitalism that is making everyone richer, so much so that it sucks poor people in from south of the border.

Most of the rich blow their money in their lifetimes and return to the middle class or lower. Only a handful of the richest families in America in 1900 were still the richest in 2000. Wealth naturally disperses through inheritance and foolishness. Most of the people with high income or wealth earned it by working their butts off providing goods and services that people wanted. That means doctors working twelve hour plus days and small businessmen living in their business and ordinary people who saved their money. They deserve their wealth.


Tantor
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Tantor
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Feb, 2004 03:38 am
Thomas wrote:
hobitbob wrote:
Do you really expect anyone to engage in reasoned discussion with you when you say things like this?

Why not, as long the ad personam provocation comes at the end of a post in which he makes reasonable points? For example, Piffka gave me her share of ad personams in this thread too. But she packaged them with some reasonable points, so it didn't keep me from engaging in reasoned discussion with her. (Or him? Not sure.)


Thomas, Thomas, Thomas,

You don't understand the rules of the game. Let me explain:

1. Everything a liberal writes is reasonable, polite, and correct, no matter how much it isn't.

2. Everything a conservative writes is unreasonable, rude, and false, no matter how much it isn't.

It's all about smug liberal self-righteousness.

Tantor
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Feb, 2004 07:02 pm
It's curious (to me, at least) that the conservatives on this thread are lining up to show support for Wal-Mart. How times have changed. What is it about a mega-corporation that makes you guys so misty-eyed?
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Tantor
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Feb, 2004 09:38 pm
D'artagnan wrote:
It's curious (to me, at least) that the conservatives on this thread are lining up to show support for Wal-Mart. How times have changed. What is it about a mega-corporation that makes you guys so misty-eyed?


I support Walmart because it delivers the goods, unlike anything the Left proposes. The Left only proposes that which forces their decisions on unwilling consumers. Beyond that, conservatives understand that corporations are necessary, just like steamshovels and trains, to perform large scale tasks. However, contrary to your overgeneralization, my support for corporations depends on what they actually do. Walmart does good, therefore I support it.

Tantor
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 01:13 am
D'artagnan wrote:
What is it about a mega-corporation that makes you guys so misty-eyed?


I'm not misty eyed about mega-corporations. I am misty-eyed about the idea that people make their own choices, rather than have so some wannabe social reformer make their choices for them. I have absolutely no problem with people who don't shop at Wal-Mart because they hate it there. I do have a problem with people who insinuate that mayors and lawmakers should protect communities against Wal-Mart, when -- no, because -- large parts of said communities choose to shop there. Now you're messing with other people's choices because you don't like them.

I am pro-choice on everything, including your choice of retailers.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 11:02 am
Wall-Mart is a smart marketing scheme that works with the lazy shopper. I don't know if one could call trying to find one item when turns out to be sometimes marginally cheaper by walking miles around their stores trying to find it. It's appeal is to the mall shopper who believes they can save money and sometimes its now the only game in town if there is no Target, K-Mart, et al. The truth is they are only rarely cheaper and the quality is made for Wal-Mart merchandise. They're making it for .50 cents in some sweat shop and charging the consumer $8.00. Hurray for a triumph of profit margins, boo for the unwary consumer.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 11:26 am
D'artagnan wrote:
It's curious (to me, at least) that the conservatives on this thread are lining up to show support for Wal-Mart. How times have changed. What is it about a mega-corporation that makes you guys so misty-eyed?


I'm a conservative now?
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 11:42 am
I guess anyone can love Wal-Mart. What I meant is, my recollection of conservatives in the old days was a group supporting small business people. Well, big ones, too, I guess, but there were so many more small businesses back then. Now the small shop owner is an endangered species, while Wal-Mart dominates the landscape.

And don't think for a moment that there's a level playing field. Sweetheart deals are offered to Wal-Mart to enter a market.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 11:57 am
The conservatives supported small businesses? The SBA was initiated during Truman or Kennedy I believe by a predominantly Democratic legislature push. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The conservative always feign interest in the common citizen and small businesses. Their agenda was always to have them absorbed into a facist system of large companies, preferably in a small number they can more easily bed down with.
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Tantor
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 12:03 pm
The corporation is a beautiful intellectual construct. The problem with forming a large enterprise is amassing the capital and dealing with the risk. The problem was solved first by the Dutch in the 1600s when they were sending ships sailing across the seas with expensive cargos. A large number of ships foundered, rendering a total loss to their owners. To acquire the capital to buy the ships and their cargoes, the Dutch formed corporations so that many people could contribute. That also spread the risk. If any one ship went down, the fortune of a single individual would not go down with it.

The problem with large enterprises is that nobody has the money to fully fund it. Even if they did, they would be a fool to bet their entire fortune on one enterprise. Spreading the ownership around along with the risk was a very practical and elegant solution to the problem.

That said, there are not many goods and services that lend themselves to organization into big corporations. Less than 5% of the work force in America are employed in companies that have more than 500 employees. Most of the workforce are employed in small businesses that are not incorporated. Corporations are limited to providing goods and services for which there is a steady, reliable demand. That's why they so slavishly follow the market and fund large marketing departments to figure out what consumers want.

The idea that corporations can make us buy something we don't want it absurd. If it were true, we'd all be driving down the road in our Edsels washing down our McDonald's Hula Burgers with New Coke. The hard facts are that almost all new products fail. If Walmart was not providing goods and services people wanted, it would fail.

Tantor
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 12:05 pm
I'll correct myself -- it was voted into law in 1953 during Eisenhower who initiated the proposal out of Roosevelt's New Deal programs. I would not call Eisenhower a conservative -- he had centrist ideas regarding the military and big business. He certainly bears no resemblance to Bush and Co.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 12:08 pm
Yes, everyone realizes that everyone is getting fat and dying eating at MacDonalds and that is their own personal choice. It doesn't make MacDonalds any better, in fact their sales are dropping because of the governmental messages about nutrition.
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Tantor
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 12:10 pm
Lightwizard wrote:
The conservatives supported small businesses? The SBA was initiated during Truman or Kennedy I believe by a predominantly Democratic legislature push. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The conservative always feign interest in the common citizen and small businesses. Their agenda was always to have them absorbed into a facist system of large companies, preferably in a small number they can more easily bed down with.


Most business everywhere is small business. A government program to support small business does not mean that Democrats love small business, just that they have found a new group of voters to bribe. If anything, Democrats drive small business crazy by foisting expensive rules and regulations on them, like mandating their home offices match OSHA standards and mandating that tiny firms be handicapped accessible, among other craziness.

It is socialist societies that attempt to outlaw small private businesses and concentrate them into huge, unwieldly, unprofitable goliaths. The Soviets did it and failed as did the National Socialists in Germany.

Tantor
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Tantor
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 12:12 pm
Lightwizard wrote:
Yes, everyone realizes that everyone is getting fat and dying eating at MacDonalds and that is their own personal choice. It doesn't make MacDonalds any better, in fact their sales are dropping because of the governmental messages about nutrition.


Wrong. McDonald's is not growing as fast as in the past because their customer base is aging and their tastes are changing. The yuppies who grew up on Mickey D's burgers prefer gourmet burgers now.

Tantor
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