1
   

Were Adam and Eve murdered by God?

 
 
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2010 04:31 pm
Were Adam and Eve murdered by God?

Genesis 3;22
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

I read this as God breaking His word by putting condition in place that make it impossible for Adam and Eve to do what He commanded them to do in Gen2;16.

Genesis 2;16
And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: ------This would include the tree of life.
17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Thus, they did not lose their lives.
God forced them to die by locking up the tree of life.


This situation is analogous to you or I finding our child bleeding to death, and hiding the tourniquet that would save it‘s life.
In our real world, we would be found guilty of murder and deservedly so. I think that this would be a monstrous act by any person.
God did exactly that in Genesis3;24 by the denial of the tree of life. If under our secular law, God would be found guilty of premeditated murder the same way we would be in my tourniquet scenario..

This shows a jealous, vindictive, criminal God who would also deny man extremely vital information that man must have for moral growth and to be able to rise above the common beasts. The knowledge of good and evil. The source of our moral sense.
Our moral sense is basically the only factor that places us above what we call dumb animals.

Many read Genesis and it’s cautionary tale in a literal way and if so, the literal Word condemns God as stated above.
If not read literally and as myth, it still shows God in an evil light and I frankly do not know if the writer would denigrate God just to give us some other moral message.

Genesis, in the garden as well as elsewhere, shows a sadistic unjust God who is quick to trample on man’s free will and I do not think that free will enters into the why of the story of Adam and Eve but I do refer to it in the link below.

As a Deist without a creator God, my interest in Adam and Eve and how God dealt with them is in the morality of the situation and I question strongly the notion that God was behaving in a moral way. If you could respond with your moral view I would appreciate it.

The punishment revolves around the notion that Adam and Eve should not have disobeyed God’s command to not eat of the tree of knowledge. God had already declared that that tree was good. This is confirmed here.

Genesis 3; 6
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Without first eating of the tree that would teach her what good and evil meant, it would be impossible for Eve to know that the tree was good for food or indeed that to die, the punishment for eating of it, was evil. Another reason for not taking scriptures literally because knowing good and evil before eating of the knowledge of good and evil makes no sense at all. Regardless of this fact, one must wonder why, if the tree was already good and desirable for wisdom, why God would introduce a Satan or talking snake to tempt Eve. Good drama I guess. Why punish man for becoming wise is also a good question. Surely He could not have wanted man to remain or go through life without wisdom or less wisdom that He said the talking serpent possessed.

I include here other view and perspectives for your perusal, entertainment or enlightenment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nESfGlR7l-o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=594cFaTKlE8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQBDGMj2h-c&feature=related

My question then is this.

Did God set conditions in Eden for His eventual murder of Adam and Eve, through His denial of the tree of life, after breaking his word to them as to their being able to eat from it?

Regards
DL
 
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2010 05:02 pm
Apart from indulging outrageous fantasy, you've f*cked-up the scriptural references.

It was not the tree of life which was fatal to Adam (Eve was not even in the picture yet), it was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

In the King James version, Genesis, Chapter Two, Verses eight and nine, and fifteen through seventeen:

And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

. . .

And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


If you're going to peddle religiously based bullshit, you need to get the scripture right. It ought to be particularly humiliating to you to reflect that an atheist knows the Bible better than you do.

Clown.
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  2  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2010 05:27 pm
@Greatest I am,
First of all, there is no God, so why do you keep droning on and on about what he allegedly did and said? We already agreed he was created by man (not vice versa), so this is all moot. Why don't you just phrase your questions from your own POV and your own mouth instead of dragging us all back to fairy-land?
Intrepid
 
  3  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2010 05:47 pm
@Greatest I am,
You appear to be somewhat delusional in your interpretations.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2010 05:49 pm
Kill 'em with irony, eh?
Intrepid
 
  2  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2010 05:50 pm
@Setanta,
Smile
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2010 06:51 pm
Who really knows what happened? There are too many errors, omissions, and mistakes in the bible to take it seriously. Even contemporary comic books have a more thorough message.
Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2010 07:00 pm
Why would god have to stoop to murder when he's got disease, famine, tsunamis, fire, volcanos, floods, nasty serpents etc in his back pocket. Just kidding. There is no god, just people who make something out of nothing in their own likeness...
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2010 07:09 pm
@Ceili,
Ceili wrote:
There is no god, just people who make something out of nothing in their own likeness...


Eggs-acktly
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2010 08:01 am
@Mame,
Mame wrote:

First of all, there is no God, so why do you keep droning on and on about what he allegedly did and said? We already agreed he was created by man (not vice versa), so this is all moot. Why don't you just phrase your questions from your own POV and your own mouth instead of dragging us all back to fairy-land?


I have already told you why I show, use and dispute the literal view.

It is my view that all literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are Religionists.
They all hurt their parent religions and everyone else who has a belief. They make us all into laughing stocks and should rethink their position. There is a Godhead but not the God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution. Belief in fantasy is evil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HKHaClUCw4&feature=PlayList&p=5123864A5243470E&index=0&playnext=1

They also do much harm to their own.

African witches and Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9gXriVI&feature=related

Jesus Camp 1of 9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOqGhcwwE1s

If you do not want to contribute to the fight, ignore me.
Just coming by to bitch and abuse is so Christian. Do try to be better.

Regards
DL
Mame
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2010 08:03 am
@Greatest I am,
Well, I'm not a Christian, so there you are. I wonder how effective your attempts are! LOLOLOL
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2010 08:03 am
@Intrepid,
Intrepid wrote:

You appear to be somewhat delusional in your interpretations.


I do not believe in the literal reading of scripture and you are right, reading scripture that way is delusional.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2010 08:06 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Who really knows what happened? There are too many errors, omissions, and mistakes in the bible to take it seriously. Even contemporary comic books have a more thorough message.


I agree to a point.
Do not throw the baby out with the bat water. Before Christianity made the fatal error of liberalizing scripture, as a myth it is quite good.
If you consider that the talking snake represents the greater society that Adam and Eve are to grow into, with it’s goods and evils, the story of a right of passage flows quite well.
All is perfect as children grow up in the home/garden. At some point, society/talking snake calls them out and that is when learning of the world starts. As the children reach maturity, they basically give up out of their single life to marry. If you are married, you will know that your life is no longer your own but now belongs to family, children and career.
You die to your old life just like Adam and Eve did. In reading where God is evicting Adam and Eve from Eden, if you read it in a stern angry God voice, you will get a notion that He is cursing them. If on the other hand, you read it in a Jesus type soft loving voice, you see that all God is doing is telling them the facts without a curse.
I guess it all depends on how you want to see God.
As a loser who could not get heaven right with Satan being born there and screwing God’s round one. And God also losing round two in Eden with His failure in starting up Adam and Eve on the right foot.
Or.
Seeing God as a winner with Satan firmly under His command as Job indicates in heaven and also doing God bidding in Eden in making sure Adam and Eve learn their lessons and get on with killing their innocence, dying. And being reborn to adulthood and a new life with their own family and career. The tree of life.

You might Google Gnostic gospels to see how closely you agree with their interpretation of Eden. The Gnostic Christians were much brighter than the Orthodox Christians of that day IMO.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2010 08:15 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Who really knows what happened? There are too many errors, omissions, and mistakes in the bible to take it seriously. Even contemporary comic books have a more thorough message.


I agree to a point.
Do not throw the baby out with the bat water. Before Christianity made the fatal error of liberalizing scripture, as a myth it is quite good.
If you consider that the talking snake represents the greater society that Adam and Eve are to grow into, with it’s goods and evils, the story of a right of passage flows quite well.
All is perfect as children grow up in the home/garden. At some point, society/talking snake calls them out and that is when learning of the world starts. As the children reach maturity, they basically give up out of their single life to marry. If you are married, you will know that your life is no longer your own but now belongs to family, children and career.
You die to your old life just like Adam and Eve did. In reading where God is evicting Adam and Eve from Eden, if you read it in a stern angry God voice, you will get a notion that He is cursing them. If on the other hand, you read it in a Jesus type soft loving voice, you see that all God is doing is telling them the facts without a curse.
I guess it all depends on how you want to see God.
As a loser who could not get heaven right with Satan being born there and screwing God’s round one. And God also losing round two in Eden with His failure in starting up Adam and Eve on the right foot.
Or.
Seeing God as a winner with Satan firmly under His command as Job indicates in heaven and also doing God bidding in Eden in making sure Adam and Eve learn their lessons and get on with killing their innocence, dying. And being reborn to adulthood and a new life with their own family and career. The tree of life.

You might Google Gnostic gospels to see how closely this agrees with their interpretation of Eden. The Gnostic Christians were much brighter than the Orthodox Christians of that day IMO.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2010 08:17 am
@Ceili,
Ceili wrote:

Why would god have to stoop to murder when he's got disease, famine, tsunamis, fire, volcanos, floods, nasty serpents etc in his back pocket. Just kidding. There is no god, just people who make something out of nothing in their own likeness...


No argument here.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2010 08:21 am
@Mame,
Mame wrote:

Well, I'm not a Christian, so there you are. I wonder how effective your attempts are! LOLOLOL


If I go by how often I get them to run from what they cannot answer then I am quite effective.

For evil to grow, all good men need do is nothing.
Why are you harassing one who is doing something to end evil?
Stop doing evil.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2010 08:41 am
What an egotistical fool. It was Edmund Burke who said: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." So, you screwed the quote, just as you screwed the scripture in your initial post, and you didn't even have the decency to attribute the quote to its author. That's pretty slimy, trying to appear wise by using someone else's words without giving them credit.

Burke was a politician, and as such, flannel-mouthed and hypocritical where his own interests were concerned. This quote just looks like wisdom, because, in fact, it begs at least two questions. The first, to know what evil actually is, and the second to know who the good men are who will save us.

Anyone here familiar with your drivel is neither going to assume that you are competent to ferret out evil, nor that you are one of the good men who will save us. Let's have a little more scrripture for the egotist here:

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

In the King James version, that's Matthew, Chapter 23, verse 27. It's also a description of you to a tee.
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2010 09:11 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Who really knows what happened?


Adam and Eve?

Best advice is never talk to a snake...
Greatest I am
 
  0  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2010 09:36 am
@Setanta,
Setanta

Bite me.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2010 09:39 am
You're pathetic, Bubba.

Greatest? Bullshit . . . you're not even good at this.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
  1. Forums
  2. » Were Adam and Eve murdered by God?
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 05/10/2024 at 08:07:11