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Does and should God break His commandments?

 
 
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2010 05:06 pm
Does and should God break His commandments?

There are inconsistencies in scripture that indicate that God is not subject to His own laws and commandments.

If, on earth as it is in heaven is to have meaning, and if God is to be our greatest example, we should remember that any human law maker is subject to his laws yet many think that God has more of a, do as I say and not as I do, type of morality. This to me would be an immoral and hypocritical position and I cannot see God taking it. If God is exempt from His own laws then, on earth as in heaven, can never come to pass.

As I look at the list of commandments, I see where God and or Jesus may indeed have broken some of the commandments.

The 1st You shall have no other gods before me.

It appears the Jesus broke this commandment by placing himself above God the Father, ----only through me. That is why we are told that if we do not believe in Jesus, we are doomed to hell. This basically usurps the function once held by the Father.

The 2nd You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

God Himself carved a set of commandments for Moses and thus breaks the commandment.

The 3rd You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

Pass.

The 4th Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Jesus was accused of working and preaching on the Sabbath.
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=Jesus%20sabbath&version1=9&searchtype=all

The 5th Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

Jesus seems again to place Himself ahead or above the Father which arguably shows a lack of respect.

The 6th You shall not murder.
God, in a large number of places in the O T, either kills or orders the killing of many and in the cases of children and babies, these can arguably be called murder.

The 7th You shall not commit adultery.
God is said to use Mary, another man’s woman, to reproduce what some would call a bastard son as it was born out of wedlock.

Tee 8th You shall not steal.
Pass.


The 9th You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
If lie is implied, we would see again a number of times where we can arguably say that God lied. The first would be in Eden to Adam and Eve who were told they could eat of the tree of life and later, God rescinded this statement and prevented that possibility. Thus making His statement a lie. It is also said by theists that god gave us our free will and He is also shown as rescinding this gift every time He killed or had someone killed. They would obviously had the free will choice to live and not die yet this free will decision was ignored by God.

10th You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.
God seems to break this one as well when He desired Mary as the vessel for His reproductive purposes. He also seems to covet our love honor and adoration quite strongly as, if it is denied, then those who do not, end in eternal hell.

These clearly show a poor record, 2 out of 10, for God in keeping His own commandment and laws. I have likely been marking in a stricter way than the average theist.

Should God be expected to keep the commandments?

If we can get past these then we can tackle the question of whether or not man can hold to the 10 commandments. I think we can actually do better than God.

Regards
DL
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2010 06:42 pm
He already has, so you're talking about the past tense.

"Thou shalt now kill." Ring a bell?
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2010 09:22 pm
@Greatest I am,
Seems like a fairly senseless debate. Why should God be bound by 10 Commandments? Those are rules for mankind on earth!
Why make this a question or a debate?

I smell an evangelist lurking in the reeds!
Pemerson
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2010 09:28 pm
Who are you to suggest what God should do, if there is one. Ask yourself all those questions about yourself. What are you doing?
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2010 10:06 pm
There's nothing to see here folks. Just another rhetorical meandering.
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Aug, 2010 11:07 am
@Ragman,
Ragman wrote:

Seems like a fairly senseless debate. Why should God be bound by 10 Commandments? Those are rules for mankind on earth!
Why make this a question or a debate?

I smell an evangelist lurking in the reeds!


If do as I say and not as I do is a good policy, I hope our law makers do not emulate God the way scripture says we are supposed to.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Aug, 2010 11:08 am
@Pemerson,
Pemerson wrote:

Who are you to suggest what God should do, if there is one. Ask yourself all those questions about yourself. What are you doing?


All Gods should be questioned and judged and all believers and non believers do just that.

Regards
DL
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Aug, 2010 11:28 am
@Greatest I am,
Unless you judge god, you can't judge the devil either, because how are we to know otherwise?
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Aug, 2010 02:07 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Unless you judge god, you can't judge the devil either, because how are we to know otherwise?


Exactly.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Aug, 2010 03:35 pm
@Greatest I am,
Does and should God break His commandments?
God cab do as God pleases after all God is God.
There are inconsistencies in scripture that indicate that God is not subject to His own laws and commandments.

Stop already making laugh me. The Bible and scriptures in there have been multiplied in errors from centuries of translations.

If, on earth as it is in heaven is to have meaning, and if God is to be our greatest example, we should remember that any human law maker is subject to his laws yet many think that God has more of a, do as I say and not as I do, type of morality. This to me would be an immoral and hypocritical position and I cannot see God taking it. If God is exempt from His own laws then, on earth as in heaven, can never come to pass.

As I look at the list of commandments, I see where God and or Jesus may indeed have broken some of the commandments.

The 1st You shall have no other gods before me.

It appears the Jesus broke this commandment by placing himself above God the Father, ----only through me. That is why we are told that if we do not believe in Jesus, we are doomed to hell. This basically usurps the function once held by the Father.
Jesus broke nothing. He indicates that he is a conduit. Jesus didn't say worship me and only me he said believe in me as the son of God and then you can be like a camel passing through the eye of a needle.

The 2nd You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

God Himself carved a set of commandments for Moses and thus breaks the commandment. God had to carve the tablets Moses had no carving things. The commandment tablets list laws they are not carved or graven images. Those carved images which are to not be prayed to are like the golden cow which got some heathens in trouble and when a person prays directly to a statue of a saint and makes the Saint the ruler creator of all and not God.
The 3rd You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

Pass.
A miracle! Proof God exists!

The 4th Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Jesus was accused of working and preaching on the Sabbath.
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=Jesus%20sabbath&version1=9&searchtype=all If Jesus hadn't been off out on preaching then the sinners would not have been redeemed.

God is fair and just and allows a sermon and even work on the Sabbath just don't work on that day for personal profit. Before starting you, tithing does not constitute profit if those monies go to further spreading of the word of God.

And Sabbath is a loose territory can be Saturday or Sunday maybe even another day as long as one day weekly is observed.


The 5th Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

Jesus seems again to place Himself ahead or above the Father which arguably shows a lack of respect.

And? We saw what happened his days were not long upon the land maybe there was truth in commandment there.

The 6th You shall not murder.
God, in a large number of places in the O T, either kills or orders the killing of many and in the cases of children and babies, these can arguably be called murder.

Pshaw! It's not murder when God wipes out groups from famine or flood it's population control.

The 7th You shall not commit adultery.
God is said to use Mary, another man’s woman, to reproduce what some would call a bastard son as it was born out of wedlock.

It wasn't adultery if God wasn't married. More than that he didn't have sex wiith Mary he spirited a pregnancy into her so clearly neither he nor she had sex so no adultery.

Tee 8th You shall not steal.

Pass.
Praise be another miracle!

The 9th You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
If lie is implied, we would see again a number of times where we can arguably say that God lied. The first would be in Eden to Adam and Eve who were told they could eat of the tree of life and later, God rescinded this statement and prevented that possibility. Thus making His statement a lie. It is also said by theists that god gave us our free will and He is also shown as rescinding this gift every time He killed or had someone killed. They would obviously had the free will choice to live and not die yet this free will decision was ignored by God.


I thought God gave very specifiic iinstructions NOT to eat from that one tree and it was a serpent who talked Eve into it. Well it was God's garden so a change here or there is allowed and Eve and Adam had been warned before they decided to eat the fruit from that tree.


10th You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.
God seems to break this one as well when He desired Mary as the vessel for His reproductive purposes. He also seems to covet our love honor and adoration quite strongly as, if it is denied, then those who do not, end in eternal hell.

Are you saying Mary was an ox?
Later again he did not have sex with Mary he merely spirited a life into her to create a human form that people on Earth could relate to and with communicate.



These clearly show a poor record, 2 out of 10, for God in keeping His own commandment and laws. I have likely been marking in a stricter way than the average theist.


Could you do better? Anyway God didn't fail at the other 8 you interpetation failed at.

Should God be expected to keep the commandments? Why? Even if God failed which did not happen God is ruler and creator and can change or redesign when wanted.


If we can get past these then we can tackle the question of whether or not man can hold to the 10 commandments. I think we can actually do better than God.

Regards
DL

God knows we are not perfect and there is your truest answer. We are said created to be in God's image and if God knows we are not perfect then God may supspect that God is not perfect. Our mission on Earth is to try to be as good and decent as possible.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Aug, 2010 03:41 pm
@Sturgis,
It would seem to me that god is the biggest sinner, because he always had "control."
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Aug, 2010 03:43 pm
@cicerone imposter,
If then God is control and God controls all then sin is controlled by from God and then not a sin.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Aug, 2010 03:47 pm
@Sturgis,
You may look at it that way, but if god doesn't follow his own admonitions, and calls the same act as a sin, the inconsistency tells me god's control is a contradiction. He can't make laws, break them, then say to humans, you have sinned. That's control, but it's a contradiction.
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Aug, 2010 03:57 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Said earlier God knows we aren't perfect we are in created image of God so God knows that God isn't perfect and expects only that we try our best which God may also be doing.
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Aug, 2010 04:23 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

It would seem to me that god is the biggest sinner, because he always had "control."


Do you know what a sin is? It is a simple definition --- Sin is estrangement from God.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Aug, 2010 04:25 pm
@Intrepid,
Oh? That's news to me! I always thought sins were all those "thou shalt nots..." and those other demands he made in the bible.
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Aug, 2010 06:54 pm
Sturgis

You either have your head nice and deep up God's ass or you are joking.
God the creator. LOL.

Either way, you should see this.

The Pagan Christ Pt 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7StcxGM5KcA

The link may not work if you are in the U S so I have included the title for you to Google. Enjoy.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Aug, 2010 06:57 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

It would seem to me that god is the biggest sinner, because he always had "control."


Not with Mary. She was a doll.

Why else would an omnipotent God need a virgin?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYW_lPlekiQ

Regards
DL
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Aug, 2010 06:59 pm
@Sturgis,
Sturgis wrote:

If then God is control and God controls all then sin is controlled by from God and then not a sin.


Scripture says we should try to be like God. No sin for God = no sin for man. God is our example. Let's think genocide is good justice. Ya ya.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Aug, 2010 07:01 pm
@Sturgis,
Sturgis wrote:

Said earlier God knows we aren't perfect we are in created image of God so God knows that God isn't perfect and expects only that we try our best which God may also be doing.


Not perfect? Your not serious?
You do not believe the Bible then?

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Oh ye of little faith.

Regards
DL


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