Widespread Support for Banning Full Islamic Veil in Western Europe

@ebrown p,

ebrown p wrote:

The law preventing me from running around naked isn't for the purpose of keeping me from being oppressed. I am not allowed to run around naked because other people are offended by me being naked.

Before for continue to twist this into the same thing.... the best argument you can make is that the oppression of women is offensive, but burkas do not equal oppression. A burka is not proof (legal or otherwise) that the woman wearing the burka is being oppressed. There are women who wear burkas by their own choice (by your own admission or else you wouldn't be promoting laws to stop them).

Banning women from wearing a burka because some women in burkas are oppressed, is like banning me from eating a hamburger because some men are getting heart attacks.

This is as nonsensical as your makeup example, until such time as a significant percentage of male hamburger eaters or female make-up wearers are being beaten and otherwise heinously oppressed for not eating hamburgers or going without make-up. Neither of these silly examples are examples of MEN making up rules that only women have to follow. If burkas don't equal oppression; what do they equal? What is their sole purpose, and whom is it meant to serve? This entire religious rights angle is nonsense to begin with. Show me one tract of the Koran that dictates anything even resembling a burqa. This was made up by tyrannical assholes to oppress their women, and that some have been so indoctrinated as to actually desire it is a crying shame. Its heinous oppression and you know it, so why are you pretending the desire of a relative handful of essentially Stockholm Syndrome sufferers right’s to cooperate with their oppressors somehow trump the importance of trying to save the next generation from being similarly brainwashed? Do you, Ebrown, think it is okay to let an entire gender of humans be treated as second class citizens who must obey their husbands and the demands of some misogynistic tyrannical asshole they’ve never even met… even if they reside in these United States?

ebrown p wrote:

Here is the danger: it is clear that some people are offended by Muslims. It is not only burkas... there are hate-filled screaming idiots opposing every mosque being built (including one right near me).

This is no danger at all. It is a non sequitur. Mosque building provides a place for legal wearing of burquas, among other things and is most certainly not at all related to banning of wearing burqas in PUBLIC.

ebrown p wrote:

Banning women from wearing a burka because Muslims make you uncomfortable makes more sense. Of course there are both ethical and Constitutional problems with banning the dress of one ethnicity.

Muslims do not make me uncomfortable; oppression does. I care not what God you do or do not worship in the least; right up until you want to get in my face about it, or start putting constraints on others. Oppressing your woman in front of my daughter is easily more offensive than wearing a thong in front of her.

ebrown p wrote:

Banning me from running around naked does not prevent me from being oppressed. There is no pretext that my rights are being defended by keeping me clothed. This is for the sake of the people around me who don't want to see me naked.

And the community has a right to determine the standard of what's acceptable in public and what isn't... whether it's Ebrown in his birthday suit, a thong or a burqa.

ebrown p wrote:

In the same way, banning Muslim women from dressing like Muslims doesn't protect them from anything. This is not to protect their rights... it is for the sake of people around them who don't want to see Muslims.

Let's at least be honest here.

How do you cap a bald face lie with a plea for honesty? Again, the French and several other countries have already protected a multitude of women by restricting where a burqa can be worn. Who’s not being honest here?
Screw it. Give me a beer.

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Either one will do, thanks.
Drunk

- not drunk, but cheers.

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We only have to look at those countries where the burqa is almost essential and see the religious police demanding a dress code with the threat of serious painful punishment. That's what should be concerning us. The veil of any description is not a dress of choice for millions but a dictate from an authoritarian ruler. It represents oppression and if the few who think its their right to wear the burqa stood up for those who are forced to wear it, I might just have some sympathy for them.

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@xris,

xris wrote:

We only have to look at those countries where the burqa is almost essential and see the religious police demanding a dress code with the threat of serious painful punishment. That's what should be concerning us. The veil of any description is not a dress of choice for millions but a dictate from an authoritarian ruler. It represents oppression and if the few who think its their right to wear the burqa stood up for those who are forced to wear it, I might just have some sympathy for them.

I actually don't see why what any other country, peoples, group does concerns us. It's not our business. You wouldn't go into your neighbour's house and start telling them what to do, so why do it to anyone else? I think all you can do is legislate fairness and equality at home, applicable to all who live in your country, period.

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@Mame,

It should not concern us? What a particularly insular view to take. So Darfur , Palestine, we should not be interested in what happens? we should not be debating France and its decision to ban the Burqa? So why are you entering into this thread. It should of be of no interest to you, should it?

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@Mame,

Mame,

You convinced me that this discussion had gone on too long and that no one had anything new to say. I even broke out the beer. Now you are continuing it?

((shrugs))

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@ebrown p,

Nothing new ? A strange reply . You posed a question, I answered , if you cant reply its not about being novel, surely?

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@xris,

xris wrote:

Are you serious? its not a matter of security when someone wears a wig in the high street. That would exclude a large proportion of the male populace. In airports or where we are aware there might be security problem, veils, wigs or any concern might require removal that's not or never is a problem. I don't think the bus driver would want to check if you had a wig on before he checked your identity.

If he/she thought you had an explosive powder/device under your wig, the driver would have every right to inspect the area under your wig.

What's the "high street"?

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@xris,

xris wrote:

... its not exactly a Muslim teaching, its more Arab .

You're apparently not well versed in the contents of the Quran.

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@Miller,

And neither is firefly.

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@Miller,

What are you on? its not about something so serious. It was a matter of buying a season ticket that required ID .You cant have a two tiered system that allows one passenger to not identify herself when another has to. Its a practical problem. In this case the Muslim girl complained about being asked to expose her face, she did not have to use her pass, if it opposed her faith. The driver needs to know who is presenting the pass. It also goes for toilets and criminal activity, we have had men dressed to avoid detection, wear a burqa.

The High street is a word that is synonymous with any main thoroughfare in the UK.

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@Mame,

Mame wrote:

It's not our business. You wouldn't go into your neighbour's house and start telling them what to do, so why do it to anyone else?

Try telling that to the liberals in the NorthEast of the USA about the Arizona situation. If you don't live in Arizona, why should you concern yourself with
the trouble surrounding the illegals flooding the Arizona landscape?

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@Miller,

So you tell me where it is demanded in the Koran ? if you know all about it, it will not be difficult.

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@Miller,

It is the bigots flooding the Arizona landscape that concern me.

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@ebrown p,

Well sit back and have another beer.

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@xris,

Sorry xris,

Bigotry ruins my appetite...

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@ebrown p,

I have no idea what you are on about , Arizona...It must be local issue and not of international importance.

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@xris,

The Arizona law is a national issue, not related, but Miller Brought it up.

The Republicans in Arizona, who have been greatly exaggerating the effects of illegal immigration for years, passed a law that not only allows local police to arrest someone if there is "reasonable suspicion" that she is an illegal immigrant, but mandates this. allowing ordinary citizens to sue police officers who don't round up people who look like an illegal immigrant.

This is a outrage to Hispanic Americans (and other minority groups) around the country. Obviously what is going to happen is that people with brown skin and/or an accent are going to be targeted as "reasonably suspicious".

The bigotry charge has some weight behind it. Russell Pearce, the state Senator behind the bill, sent email from a Neo-Nazi website to his supporters a few years ago, and he has promoted and worked with J.T. Ready, who is a Neo-Nazi. (When I use the term Neo-Nazi here, I mean it literally. These are the people who think that America is only for white, straight non-jewish people and that everyone else should be kicked out by force. There are even YouTube videos of these people doing Sig Heil salutes in formation.)

The Neo-Nazis are quite active in Arizona, they have sponsored several anti-Immigrant rallies in Arizona over the past several years.

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@ebrown p,

The more I hear about America today from forums such as this , the more it worries me. I think the divide and the extremes of the right should be of great concern. This prejudice must be influencing the view of Obama.

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Burka ban ruled out by immigration minister

Britain will not follow France by introducing a law banning women from wearing the burka, the immigration minister has ruled.

Damian Green said such a move would be “rather un-British” and run contrary to the conventions of a “tolerant and mutually respectful society”.

He said it would be “undesirable” for Parliament to vote on a burka ban in Britain and that there was no prospect of the Coalition proposing it.

(More at link)

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Widespread Support for Banning Full Islamic Veil in Western Europe

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