No Such Thing As A Christian

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Bold statement, you say?

There are a number of spiritual truths that are not widely understood in the west.

The first is the necessity of a living master.

All religions are an attempt to preserve the words and teachings of people who had divine experiences. The problem with this is, once you write words down, you kill them.

The "Living Word of God" can only be spoken... by a living person in tune with the divine in real time. Only this kind of person has the inner vision required to lead others out of their darkness. They can "see". They don't need a seeing eye dog called faith.

Even the disciples of Jesus didn't understand their master, and this is reflected in their writings of scripture. They understood the imitation of Jesus (which is what Christianity sells you), but did not understand what made Jesus the way he was. This is why Christianity is little more than spiritual junkfood. Fills you up but has little nutritional value.

You may ask how I would know of Jesus' teachings if I'm not a Christian? I am a yogi. Oddly enough, the message of a yogi and that of a Christ are the same. Identical even.

For those that don't know what God is, there are many possible answers. For those of us that have made that journey and came back from it, there is only one answer. It is the same for all who experience it.

I could tell you, but you would not believe me. This is why one's efforts need to go into perfecting this kind of awareness so you can see it for yourself. No one can ever explain it to you. This is why "God" is always going to be a personal experience.

True religion isn't a group effort. Its an individual journey.

x

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@xexon,

True religion isn't a group effort. Its an individual journey.

Not true. Knowing and understanding Christ and religion is much like growing up. As a baby you need family to nuture you. As a child you need family and others to educate and care for you. These are steps that can't be taken totally on your own until you are old enough to understand and have the capability to make decisions for yourself.

Growing in the gospel is much the same.

Organized religion gives you a map. It shouldn't the vehicle you take just the map you follow.

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@xexon,

In christian theology faith is not some exercise of the will based on knowledge. Rather it is a free gift imparted by the Holy Spirit according to the will of the Father and made effectual by the attonment of Jesus, God the son. You say you need a living Master and all Christians have a living Master who is the triune God of the Father,Son and Holy Spirit. Christians also have a living word that speaks to us teaching us everything we need to know about his plans for us. In what way do you think that the teaching of a Yogi and that of Jesus are the same? Central to Christ's teaching is that there is only one way to the father and that was through Him and Him alone. Do you believe that. He also taught that in our natural state we are spiritually dead and have no understanding of or communion with God. It is only when by the action of the Holy Spirit the dead heart becomes alive and the person is able to believe that we become adopted as sons into the family of God. There are just a couple of points and there are hundred of others I could make but the whole point that I'm trying to make is there is no other religon like Christianity, it's unique and is in opposition to any other belief.

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@xexon,

I was raised as a southern baptist. I have full understanding of religious faith.

Christianity knows nothing of Jesus. They don't understand the message, and they message they profess to understand is wormwood. Tainted.

It is compassion that unites the messages of all holy men. When you realize God, you see there is no difference in anything. You see that all of creation has many forms but is made out of a singular substance. "God"

Everything is God. Without exception.

That is the only thing I identify with now.

As for Christianity being unique, I have to disagree. This could have been just another mystic wandering in the desert. But because his teachings were picked up by Europeans, Christianity has enjoyed a ride to the top of civilization faster than others.

Thats about to change as Islam is now on your heels.

I don't like these cults that run off the words of dead people. You have no living master. (Which means the movement is spiritually blind) Professing that Jesus lives just adds to the momentum that is pushing Christianity towards the cliff.

Religions such as this are old vines in the garden that produce little in the way of worthwhile fruit. They need to be pulled up and burned so that new growth can take place.

Believers should start to run now. Your world is coming to an end soon.

You're going to be replaced by people who can see God, rather than believe in God.

That's the real Armageddon. The end of belief.

x

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@xexon,

You contradict yourself in the worst way. Your statements remind me of those uttered by most politicians. Lots of flowery word with little or no meaning behind them. You stated that there is no difference between Jesus and a Yogi when you then make statements that are in total contradiction of everything that JESUS this idea that God is everything is a very offensive idea to those that know and love God. God is not the author of evil and is perfect in every way. In your belief, Adolph Hitler,Stalin, Idi Amin, and every vile and foul thought word and deed and all those who practice them are of and part of this god. True Christianity is a religion of the individual so don't talk to me about Christianity as a group belief and don't judge it by those who make the claim that they are Christians. Only God knows who his chosen people really are. This is called,"the church invisable, known only to God. God does let us know however who is not a member of his family. "and you shall know them by their fruit". If you want to know what the fruit of the Spirit of God is, look it up in the Bible. As for your statement about those who realize god, satan and all his demons realize God but their realization will avail them nothing and they will go down to defeat and distruction when Gods plan is complete. The Bible tells us that there will be very few of his elect living in this world in the end times. If there was just one Christian living on the earth it would make Christianity no less valid so your statement that believers should start to run now because our world is coming to an end is garbage to a believer. If I was sure that this world was coming to an end and I was going to be here to see it I would be very excited and joyful that I would experience such a thing in the flesh. As for my own personal world coming to a end here on this world, that is one of the things that I know without any doubt at all will occur. This causes me no fear because Jesus has defeated death the devil and the world for those who trust Him and are called according to His purpose.

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@gusto,

Your reply is standard. Learned.

I left Christianity behind for a reason. I outgrew the children story symbology that represents deeper truths. I have been able to realize internally what others seek to realize by intellectual understanding and imitation.

I haven't read a bible in 30 years, yet I can talk of Jesus all day long.

Why is that?

I carry within me what other's carry under their arm in the form of a book. It burns in me as a living flame. I have a human identity just as you do, full of the same kind of imperfection. The difference is I am no longer bound to it as a slave.

Rather than tell you what I believe, I always will tell you what I see. Many people don't know how to deal with someone like myself. I don't qoute scripture except to make a point. I don't even read books anymore. All that stopped years ago. Personal revelation has displaced belief.

That, is the path Jesus pointed to. The Church made it's biggest mistake when it turned Jesus into a deity. Away and apart from being just a human being. Jesus was always a human being. One that had reached spiritual maturity. You can be just like Jesus. Another thing the church got wrong.

So if I tell you that Christianity is rotten from the inside out, it's because I see things alot of things other people don't.

Jesus had the same problem with Judaism.

Perhaps Gandhi said it best,

"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ."

x

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@xexon,

Jesus himself quotes scripture all through the new testament. Not only does Jesus refer to Himself over and over again as God but the old testament prophets also. " Unto us a child is born and the Government shall be upon His shoulders and jis name shall be called Wonderful, Councilor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father and the Prince of Peace is
HE. I'm not even going to respond to any more of your posts. I think that you have a Messia complex, You talk like you think you are God and I'm pretty sure you do. You are just the same as hundreds of so called Devine Yogis who have come along and show all too well that they have feet of clay just like the rest of humanity. They come they live their life, they die and they are soon forgotten

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@gusto,

I'm in the position of trying to explain the color red to a world of blind people.

Because we do not have common frames of reference, words will always fall short in any description of spiritual experience. God has to be experienced, not worshipped. That is where religion leaves the tracks. If you worship something, how can you merge into it? Religions such as Christianity enforces this very notion of distance. And maintains it. You don't need religion. You never have. To know God is a birthright that belongs to no belief system. It's the very nature of what you are.

To have a personal relationship with God, means having a divine connection while being a human being. Its not some verbal profession in front of your church peers that declares you a "Christian".

Jesus didn't intend for you to become a Christian. That's Christianity's idea.

Jesus wanted you to become a Christ yourself, because in doing so, you can truly follow him.

Am I God? Most certainly, but so are you. The difference is in our realization of that fact.

What ever it is that I am, it's your future as well.

x

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@xexon,

xexon;63995 wrote:

True religion isn't a group effort. Its an individual journey.

x

Once to die, and then the judgement. Absent from the body, present with the Lord.

1 Reply

@Volunteer,

In order for there to have been Christianity, there first needed to be a Christ. The majority of people believe that person to be Jesus.

My question to you Gentlemen is How do you know that Jesus existed? Once you answer that show me the evidence, for as has been stated this man called jesus lived as one of us, was an extremely charasmatic man who preached to thousands of people. There must be at least one eye witness account of this man would you agree?

If you don't, then how do you know the message you are following is the right one?

There is no such thing as a Christian, because the is no such thing as Jesus Christ

1 Reply

@Numpty,

Numpty;64376 wrote:

In order for there to have been Christianity, there first needed to be a Christ. The majority of people believe that person to be Jesus.

My question to you Gentlemen is How do you know that Jesus existed? Once you answer that show me the evidence, for as has been stated this man called jesus lived as one of us, was an extremely charasmatic man who preached to thousands of people. There must be at least one eye witness account of this man would you agree?

If you don't, then how do you know the message you are following is the right one?

There is no such thing as a Christian, because the is no such thing as Jesus Christ

There are many eye-witness accounts recorded and passed down for the last 2000 years. Do you choose to discount each and every one? If so, what is your basis for choosing to call all of these sworn and verified records false?

1 Reply

@Volunteer,

Volunteer;64395 wrote:

There are many eye-witness accounts recorded and passed down for the last 2000 years. Do you choose to discount each and every one? If so, what is your basis for choosing to call all of these sworn and verified records false?

Show me the records please.

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@Numpty,

Numpty;64397 wrote:

Show me the records please.

Open your Bible and start reading.

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@Volunteer,

It doesn't operate that way.

A book is a menu for what is available from the kitchen. It cannot feed you itself. Only a living master has the authority as the "word of God". Only from such a person can spiritual nutrition flow. All else is an exercise of the mind's ability to calculate.

A master belongs to no religion. This individual is the completion of a human existance, forged over many lifetimes as a diamond is put against a wheel to form many facets.

By the time it leaves, it has been transformed from rough stone to radiant soul.

Just as it arrived here as. Your true natural state. Not this human costume you've attached yourself to like Linus's blanket.

The journey of human existance through many lifetimes is but one of the carnival rides available to those who have no attachment. It's all there, waiting.

For those who desire none of it, but for the moment, the "kingdom" is wide open.

Anything is possible.

x

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@Volunteer,

Volunteer;64417 wrote:

Open your Bible and start reading.

Erm,... Yeah!! If that is your ONLY evidence then your argument/ proof is circular.

What we need is alternative verifiable sources. 12 Disciples all Saying they saw Jesus, which is in one Book. Let us see the countless other eyewitness accounts of the son of god/ Prophet (depeding on your Religion) there must be some, this is the most important person in history, surely it is documented somewhere else that he existed?

1 Reply

@Numpty,

Numpty;64429 wrote:

Erm,... Yeah!! If that is your ONLY evidence then your argument/ proof is circular.

What we need is alternative verifiable sources. 12 Disciples all Saying they saw Jesus, which is in one Book. Let us see the countless other eyewitness accounts of the son of god/ Prophet (depeding on your Religion) these must some, this is the most important person in history, surely it is documented somewhere else that he existed?

Still awaiting the eyewitness accounts of the Magic Man in the sky's son.

Come on, he's the Son of God, creator of the Universe, Galaxy and Earth, there must be something, one thing outside of the bible that demonstrates that his son walked the earth.

1 Reply

@Numpty,

Numpty;64451 wrote:

Still awaiting the eyewitness accounts of the Magic Man in the sky's son.

Come on, he's the Son of God, creator of the Universe, Galaxy and Earth, there must be something, one thing outside of the bible that demonstrates that his son walked the earth.

Are you asking to learn the truth or just taunt and tear down? Your questions seem not to be made in an effort to learn the truth, they seem to be made in order to confirm and strengthen your resolve to believe the truth is false.

Here is evidence of sources outside the Bible. Find them yourself if you are a seeker.

Does the New Testament provide a reliable history of Christ's life? - ChristianAnswers.Net

"Additionally, outside the Bible, Jesus is also mentioned by his near-contemporaries. Extra-Biblical and secular writers (many hostile) point to Jesus' existence, including the Roman writings of Tacitus, Seutonius, Thallus and Pliny, and the Jewish writings of Josephus and the Talmud. Gary Habermas has cited a total of 39 ancient extra-Biblical sources, including 17 non-Christian, that witness from outside the New Testament to over 100 details of Jesus' life, death, and resurrection."

1 Reply

@xexon,

xexon;64420 wrote:

It doesn't operate that way.

A book is a menu for what is available from the kitchen. It cannot feed you itself. Only a living master has the authority as the "word of God". Only from such a person can spiritual nutrition flow. All else is an exercise of the mind's ability to calculate.

A master belongs to no religion. This individual is the completion of a human existance, forged over many lifetimes as a diamond is put against a wheel to form many facets.

By the time it leaves, it has been transformed from rough stone to radiant soul.

Just as it arrived here as. Your true natural state. Not this human costume you've attached yourself to like Linus's blanket.

The journey of human existance through many lifetimes is but one of the carnival rides available to those who have no attachment. It's all there, waiting.

For those who desire none of it, but for the moment, the "kingdom" is wide open.

Anything is possible.

x

Keep smoking, if you stop you'll have withdrawal. The last time I stopped drinking coffee it took two months for the headaches to go away. If you choose to stop using the chemicals have some Motrin available to help and seek professional medical assistance.

1 Reply

@Volunteer,

I don't smoke and I don't drink coffee.

Perhaps you should try to deconstruct what I say rather than deconstruct me?

Your holy book is nothing but obstacle to what God is. It is belief that creates the illusion of separation. It is belief that must be plowed under for the realization if God to take place.

Christianity and Judaism are strange bedfellows, you know. Judaism has more in common with Islam than it does with Christianity. The only reason we're buddy buddy right now is the political force that comes from it.

Has nothing to do with "God".

x

1 Reply

@Volunteer,

Volunteer;64464 wrote:

Are you asking to learn the truth or just taunt and tear down? Your questions seem not to be made in an effort to learn the truth, they seem to be made in order to confirm and strengthen your resolve to believe the truth is false.

Here is evidence of sources outside the Bible. Find them yourself if you are a seeker.

Does the New Testament provide a reliable history of Christ's life? - ChristianAnswers.Net

"Additionally, outside the Bible, Jesus is also mentioned by his near-contemporaries. Extra-Biblical and secular writers (many hostile) point to Jesus' existence, including the Roman writings of Tacitus, Seutonius, Thallus and Pliny, and the Jewish writings of Josephus and the Talmud. Gary Habermas has cited a total of 39 ancient extra-Biblical sources, including 17 non-Christian, that witness from outside the New Testament to over 100 details of Jesus' life, death, and resurrection."

I am asking for evidence of the creators son.

Now I have done some research and looked at the above names. Guess what? No eywitness accounts.

Let me show you

Quote:

Non-Christian Sources
Turning to the second category of evidence for the historicity of Jesus, we now evaluate McDowell's evidence from non-Christian sources: Jewish sources and Pagan sources. Again we shall consider first the evidence as stated by McDowell in ETDAV and then briefly interact with objections to his evidence.

Jewish Sources

McDowell quotes two lines of evidence for the historicity of Jesus from Jewish sources.

1. Josephus provides independent confirmation to the life of Jesus. The most important non-Christian witness to the historical Jesus is Josephus, who wrote five works in Greek: Life, his autobiography; Contra Apion, a defense of Judaism; The Jewish War, an eyewitness account of the revolt against Rome (66-74 CE); Discourse to the Greeks Concerning Hades; and The Jewish Antiquities, a history of the Jews from Adam to his generation. McDowell cites two references to Jesus in The Jewish Antiquities; I will discuss them in reverse order.

66-74 CE, Christian Era right? So I am guessing this is betwwen 32 and 40 years after Jesus died, hardly eyewitness material is it?

Ok some more here: Windmill Ministries - Christian Apologetics

Quote:

Some folks have the impression that the only evidence for the Christian faith is the Bible itself (along with other Christian sources, of course). Skeptics suggest that this evidence can’t be trusted because the writers are biased in favor of the Christian message.

It is true that only few references to Christian origins have been located outside the Bible and the Christian church. This should not surprise us; after all, documents available today are only a fraction of what was written then, a fairly random selection at that. Remember too, the early stages of the Christian movement were quite obscure and certainly “low profile.” These events occurred in a forgettable province on the eastern edge of the Roman Empire .

Even so, more than a dozen non-Christian (Roman, Greek and Jewish) sources refer to Christian origins. Writers include ancient historians such as Tacitus, Suetonius, and Thallus, Jewish sources such as Josephus and the Talmud, Roman government officials such as Pliny the Younger and Emperor Trajan, and the Greek writer Lucian. Combine these sources and the reader has ample confirmation of the historical picture presented in the Bible.

The following writers are discussed (click on links for more information):

Flavius Josephus (37 – ca. 100 AD)

Cornelius Tacitus (ca. 55-120 AD)

Gaius Suetonius Tranquillas (ca. 130 AD)

Thallus (ca. 52 AD) via Julius Africanus (ca. 221 AD)

Pliny the Younger (ca. 61-113 AD)

The Jewish Talmud (ca. 70-200 AD)

Lucian of Samosata (second century AD)

Notice the running theme here with the dates in question. ALL are after the event, second, third and forth hand stories.

One of the 'Greatest' Historians of his time Cornelius Tacitus:Windmill Ministries - Christian Apologetics

Quote:

Little is known of the Roman historian Cornelius Tacitus, but his surviving writings present an invaluable picture of Roman life in the first century AD. He lived through the reigns of over a half dozen Roman emperors and has been called the “greatest historian” of ancient Rome. In his Annals (ca. 116 AD) he describes the Christian persecution under Nero:

Again look at the dates.

Where are the written down and documented Eyewitness accounts? This man was seen by thousands of people, he was the son of 'GOD'. Why isn't there one single eyewitness account?

With the names you have given me, you have further demonstrated to me that there was never a man called Jesus.

Don't you think if there was even one single account the Christians followers would be citing it on a daily basis, proof of their lord and saviour?

But relying on Historians 30+ years after and event as evidence is week, especially when they weren't even there.

You can do better than that i am sure, so keep them coming.

Demonstrate to me the Son of God existed through historical documentation outside of the Bible and I will have to sit up and take note, and surely I will.

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No Such Thing As A Christian

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