Evolution & Mutation in front of our eyes

As you say, time for a lesson. Everyone knows that Theory is not "fact", regardless of how well dressed it comes to the party, if you bring a pig, it remains a pigs. I do not even want you to prove it just offer a theory that remains within the confines of the "scientific method", using empirical evidence. You claim "empirical evidences" all along the time line of evolution and its theory all the way to the Big Bang. If this is true please present the "empirical evidence for the the following, or stop makings such claims, we are honest, we are intelligent. It would take a "fool" to not accept the true knowledge of science, and I will abide within the laws of logic. The facts are as such, it is science that turned me toward the presence of "intelligent design" and away form the the paradox of the pseudo intellectuals that call themselves "men of science." When in reality they are "men engaged in the act of con".

Please provide the empirical evidence for the following. A.) The gestation for the Big Bang, if it was not created, by something, or if it did not exist outside of time and space as defined by Mr. Einstein and therefore eternal by the laws of physics.

B.) Please provide the evidence that suggests that Hydrogen and Helium, the byproducts of the beginning, somehow cooled to form solid mass, where none existed before, such as nickel, iron, etc.

C.) Please provide the empirical evidence that ABIOGENESIS IS EVEN POSSIBLE (biological life came about from the inert matter of elements, found on earth, after it magically created itself)

D.) Please provide the empirical evidence that once this unexplainable happenstance of biological life, had any source of fuel to consume, being the first of its kind, and empirically prove that it not only survived, it THRIVED to the point of being able to reproduce without "other" life sources to obtain knowledge from to even morph by mutation. Empirically provide reproducible and observed abilities thereof. Life forming or gaining mutating knowledge, while being in a state of isolation.

E.) Next we would ask that you provide the "empirical evidence", that which is observed or reproducible, as to explaining the "gap" of evolutionary ancestral lineage of marcobiology prior to the Cambrian explosion. When it is very clear that microbiological life fossils have been found prior, yet this ancestral lineage to marobiological life somehow goes unnoticed. Do not come across with any possible hypothesis thereof, that only the evolutionist can clearly see. Provide the empirical evidence thereof.

F.) Please present the empirical evidence of man having jumped the species barrier of biogenesis. Don't give the common ancestor lineage speech about how man is proven to be over 95% common with primates. As man is 25% common in DNA structure to plant life, and has a 75% commonality with the worm. All this suggests is that the primate, which has more in common with other primates is one of the most intelligent creatures UNDER man. As explained earlier, all the fossil remains of humans, have three things that Primates do not have. The intellect to make tools, and communicate with drawings, and some even have been found with a "voice box" remaining. All I request is just one "empirical" link....that which as been proven reproducible or observed in nature. One, fossil remain of something in the process of transistion, one observed change in nature, besides that which is contained with the explained lineage of SPECIES, in science actual theories of biogenesis and microevolution within species.

E.) Finally present the empirical evidence that the "Universe" is indeed as old as it must be claimed by the evolutionists. Please explain how the Light of Billions of miles is calculated within fractions on A.) A moving point of reference (THE earth and the solar system). B.) The object being observed is moving away on a continuing basis..i.e., the universe at large, and this is explained as correct and unerring by measuring a "flickering" point of light. Proceed, please, and you will have a convert.

Your ignorance of true religion is amazing, You mention con-men, and naturally "assume" that the bible teaches such. It is clear that you have not "attempted" to read the word of God, and take all your talking points from the mind of others, concerning religion. The actions of the many that "abuse" the word of God for self profit is not a new concept,"And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not" (2 Peter 2:2-3). RD

Campbell:
Your feeling would be wrong, even simple questions often take time to write clear and understandable answers.

Those of us who believe in the literal Bible try not to waste time fighting over such things. Just as those who did not believe David was a literal person as the Bible clearly states he was. Now those liberal theologians know they were wrong again. All the prophecies of Christ first coming were fulfilled literally. And all the historical evidence found for the Bible shows us again that the Bible is speaking literally. Only the most liberal theologians have such problems as you suggest. Bible believers donot.

Well if you were trying to force fit the story your speaking of into a Biblical story, you might be able to do that. Nephlhys fled into the desert so her husband would not find her. She made a shelter for her new born son in the desert and left him there so she could nourish herself. Then a greyhound who had just mothered four pups near by suckled the boy like one of her own pups.

Yes, every religion does have their God's, but their is only one God that has a Book that speaks of the future before it happens. And the future the Bible speaks of is not unproven mythhology. It is a truth we can see today.

only because you cannot simply answer my questions without incriminating your own beliefs.



Ha, i find it funny that you actually believe that (among other things), it is obvious even in a small group such as this we can see the fierce debate, look at "If jesus was god" thread.




that is a detail that has nothing to do with the actual story, indeed if you look at every egg closely you will conclude that no egg is similar, yet the general size and shape and color are similar even when the details may vary.




Did you not read about the prophecy from the egyptian gods? The Egyptian prophecies are clearly speaking of the future whether you believe the story or not. Yet your mythology is not any more provable than the egyptian mythology, that is why it is faith.

Since I have been at this site I have answered many of your questions. And yes, I have read the prophecy of the Egyptian God, but they lack any of the details that I see in the prophecies of the Bible. Please point to their fulfillment today, please show us how they are fulfilled in todays world. I can't wait to hear your answer. Do the Egyptian prophecies tell us how near the end of time the Jews will return to Israel? Do they tell us how the Jews will first take Southern Israel, and then retake Jerusalem second? Do their prophecies tell us how an astroid will strike the earth, and destroy one third of the marine life and one third of the ships in that sea? Do their prophecies tell us how Jerusalems East Gate will remain sealed until the end of time when the Prince to come will open it? Do their prophecies tell of a day when a man will become the leader of the world and make all humans worship him? Do their prophecies tell us how this man will make every man, and woman receive his number in their right hand or forhead, and without this number no one will be able to buy or sell? And do their prophecies tell of the day when all how refuse to receive his number will be put to death? Do their prophecies tell of how the nations of the East will raise up an army of 200 million men? Show us the details of the Egyptian prophecies, because I have to tell you, I have not seen anything like that in the Egyptian prophecies.

have any of the above prophecies been fulfilled?

It never ceases to amaze me how someone can conclude that an "idea" that gestates from within a field of study should be considered as fact.

Again it must be pointed out that, the "theory" of evolution is just that, a theory, an idea founded not in facts of evidence but in speculation which is made by considering only information that is available from the present, with no hopes of ever being able to present it as truth absolute.

The evidence that would be needed to make this racist idea of man's evolution just does not exist, as even admitted by its creator "Charles Darwin".

Consider his own words, ".........I cannot anyhow be contented to view this wonderful universe, and especially the nature of man, and to conclude that everything is the result of brute force. I am inclined to look at everything as resulting from DESIGNED LAWS, with the details, whether good or bad, left to the working out of what we may call chance." Taken from a private letter to Asa Gray (1860); "the Ichneumonidae" has sometimes been altered to "parasitic wasps" in paraphrases.

"I feel most deeply that this whole question of Creation is too profound for human intellect. A dog might as well speculate on the mind of Newton! Let each man hope and believe what he can." London Illustrated New (21 April 1862).

"With respect to the theological view of the question. This is always painful to me. I am bewildered. I had no intention to write atheistically. But I own that I cannot see as plainly as others do, and as I should wish to do, evidence of design and beneficence on all sides of us. There seems to me too much misery in the world. I cannot persuade myself that a beneficent and omnipotent God would have designedly created the Ichneumonidae [wasps] with the express intention of their [larva] feeding within the living bodies of Caterpillars, or that a cat should play with mice. Not believing this, I see no necessity in the belief that the eye was expressly designed. On the other, I cannot anyhow be contented to view this wonderful universe, and especially the nature of man, and to conclude that everything is the result of brute force. I am inclined to look at everything as resulting from designed laws, with the details, whether good or bad, left to the working out of what we may call chance. Not that this notion at all [original italics] satisfies me. I feel most deeply that the whole subject is too profound for the human intellect. A dog might as well speculate on the mind of Newton. Let each man hope and believe what he can. Certainly I agree with you that my views are not at all necessarily atheistical. The lightning kills a man, whether a good one or bad one, owing to the excessively complex action of natural laws. A child (who may turn out an idiot) is born by the action of even more complex laws, and I can see no reason why a man, or other animals, may not have been aboriginally produced by other laws, and that all these laws may have been expressly designed by an omniscient Creator, who foresaw every future event and consequence. But the more I think the more bewildered I become; as indeed I probably have shown by this letter. Most deeply do I feel your generous kindness and interest. Yours sincerely and cordially, Charles Darwin" (Darwin to Asa Gray, [a minister] May 22, 1860)

I find it amusing that even he that gestated this idea which was originally titled "THE ORIGIN OF SPECIES BY MEANS OF NATURAL SELECTION OR THE PRESERVATION OF FAVORED RACES IN THE STRUGGLE FOR LIFE" can not bring himself to conclude that there is no "design" involved in nature. Yet modern society tries to push this unprovable "idea" down the throats of all as if it were imbedded in solid empirical science and therefore must be accepted due to its foundation.

Again it is only an "Idea" of speculation, not a fact as some wish to present it. RD

And yes, I have read the prophecy of the Egyptian God,

but they lack any of the details that I see in the prophecies of the Bible.

Please point to their fulfillment today, please show us how they are fulfilled in todays world.

Do the Egyptian prophecies tell us how near the end of time the Jews will return to Israel?

Do they tell us how the Jews will first take Southern Israel, and then retake Jerusalem second?

Do their prophecies tell us how an astroid will strike the earth,

and destroy one third of the marine life and one third of the ships in that sea?

Do their prophecies tell us how Jerusalems East Gate will remain sealed until the end of time when the Prince to come will open it?

Do their prophecies tell of a day when a man will become the leader of the world and make all humans worship him?

Do their prophecies tell us how this man will make every man, and woman receive his number in their right hand or forhead, and without this number no one will be able to buy or sell?

And do their prophecies tell of the day when all how refuse to receive his number will be put to death?

Show us the details of the Egyptian prophecies, because I have to tell you, I have not seen anything like that in the Egyptian prophecies.

no, you heard it from me.



perhaps it is only you that see those "details" or perhaps it is your intrepreation that attempts to create some of those details, the same could be done with the egyptian polytheistic prophecies.



as the same way the bible's prophecies can only be seen fullfilled inside of the bible.




the egyptian prophecies were written before they knew of 'said' jews. Even so, such a prophecy does not concern the ancient egyptians.



see answer above.




yes



When the *** has that ever happened?



I don't think jeruselum was a well-known city to the ancient egyptians of the day, and again such a prophecy does not concern them.



yes, Horus, although he wasn't a man.



Do you actually expect egyptian polytheism to make prophecies about Hebrew monotheism?



what the *** does this have to do with anything?



I don't think you've seen ANYTHING in egyptian prophecies, because you don't know anything about it. You are arguing from a stance of ignorance.

I hope that Mr. Campbell and Red Devil are running out of arugements. This debate has been fun, but I believe that it gas gone too far. You do not have to be very smart or well educated to really shake the faith of believers, if indeed, we wish to do this. The broad concept of evolution is simple, but all of the complex science that has been posted in attempts to disprove it aren't, aside from the fact that at least some of it is counterfelt, because it goes against mainstream science. Learning,Speech,&Attention Defects | Man with learning disabilities, communication disorders, ADHD, becomes author

Yes I have heard of the Egyptian prophecies from you, and I have read some of the accounts . Your the one telling me they are all the same. Yet I'm waithing for you to show me how that is true.

Your the one who seems to be talking from ignorance here.

I have given you my side of the arguement, now lets here the details from you. You made the claim, do I have to argue from your perspective? Or can you speak on the subject for yourself ? If your going to say their prophecies are just as valid as the Bibles prophecies then please show me this.

If you don't know anything about their prophecies perhaps you should not of made that statement until you yourself were prepared to point this out to me.

I knew of the Bibles prophecies long before many books on it's prophecies were popular. And your statement that the Bibles prophecy can only be seen fulfilled inside the Bible is a statement almost to stupid to comment on. The return of the Jewish people to Israel and their return to Jerusalem is clearly stated in the Old Testament. We donot have to look in the Bible to see the fulfillment of that prophecy. You only need to look at your local newspaper to see that they are there today just as the Bible predicted they would be. And the Bible tells us the the focus of world attention at the very end would be for the control of Jerusalem.

So please, show me the clear prophecies from the Egyptians. If you can't do this, then don't call me ignorant on the subject and expect me to do your homework for you. I have stated my case and laid it out before you in detail. Where is your proof. Show me your chapter and verse.

I already showed you the story that the bible has plagurized.




I know more about pagan mythology than you will ever hope to know. If anyone is arguing from ignorance it is you!




Of course the bible is just as valid as any other "holy book", but you are asking me to show you prophecies which only the abrahmic faiths have made which is not only unreasonable but even if i were it wouldn't make them any more or any less valid. The pagan prophecies have thier own prophecies and yet you ask me to show you prophecies from monotheistic religions, and that is just plain stupid!




i have shown you a prophecy that was apparently fullfilled according to their religion.



for any of the prophecies to be valid they have to ALL have been fullfilled, which has yet to be!



Egyptians predicted the fall of Atlantis and the Death of those who disturb the tombs of the Pharoh, predicted the fate of Ramses, and the fate of the World...

I really donot see where the Bible plagurized a story from any Egyptian writings.

If you cannot speak with any knowledge of any prophecies, then please donot come here and try to use them as proof. Unless your prepared to give me chapter and verse as I have done for you, you are wasting both of out times. And I don't care about a prophecy that has been fulfilled according to someones religion. Show me a prophecy that has been fulfilled according to the news media. When we see Jews in control of both Israel and Jerusalem, and we see this in the world news, well, then there is a prophecy that has been fulfilled. You say the Egyptians had a prophecy that predicts the fall of Atlantis. Well that's great, show me where they said that,

All the prophecies in the Bible donot have to be fulfilled for one of them to be valid.

Jesus Christ fulfilled 300 prophecies of the Old Testament. The Jews have retaken Israel, and are now in control of Jerusalem, the East Gate remains sealed. And yes, the prophecies that have been fulfilled are all valid. And they are valid, because they are facts.

Horus was born of a miraculous birth on Dec.25 to a star in the east heralded by 3 elders to his mother Isis, he was a boy prodigy and age 12 he goes around performing miracles and teaching then there is a blank untill age 30 when he is initiated by Anep the baptiser, his teachings anger the religious authority of the time and he is sentanced to death were he is crucified for 3 days he dies then is reserected only to ascend to heaven to met his father Osiris.




"For Plato, Atlantis was a useful myth for conveying several lessons he wanted to make about government and the nature of city-states. In the twentieth century it has been integrated into a myth about overreliance on technology as opposed to personal spiritual and psychic awareness. Plato described Atlantis as a large land located beyond the Straits of Gibraltar. It was a powerful land able to conquer much of the Mediterranean basin, but at the height of its power it was destroyed by geologic forces. Plato supposedly learned of Atlantis as a result of the Athenian lawgiver Solon, who had brought the story to Greece from Egypt several centuries earlier."

"According to Plato, Solon (an egyptian priest) told the story to the grandfather of the Critias appearing in this dialogue, who was also named Critias, and who retold the story to his grandson.[13] The latter group alleges that the tyrant's grandfather could not have both talked to Solon and still have been alive at the time the hypothetical discussion pictured in this dialogue was held. Thus they assume that it is the tyrant's grandfather who appears in both Timaeus and Critias, and his own grandfather, who was told the Atlantis story by Solon."

-http://www.answers.com/topic/critias-dialogue




Yes, they do, thats the whole point, if any of them fail then they could have been just as easily fulfilled by sheer chance.



how many of those 300 prophecies can be seen fulfilled outside of the bible? Furthermore how many prophecies wern't fulfilled, 205, and how many prophecies are still waiting to be fulfilled??? Why is it that you are the only person to have heard of this east gate prophecy? Show me the link.

Mr. Campbell, I am well aware that there are gaps in the evidence of evolution, and that there are some imaginary links. I do not think that anyone would deny that. However, the overall picture is overwhelming not only from paleology, but also from embryology, D.N.A. and genetics. Hense, the relation of eveloution to medicine. We do not claim to be infallible, you do. Learning,Speech,&Attention Defects | Man with learning disabilities, communication disorders, ADHD, becomes author

Mr. Campbell, I am well aware that there are gaps in the evidence of evolution, and that there are some imaginary links. I do not think that anyone would deny that. However, the overall picture is overwhelming not only from paleology, but also from embryology, D.N.A. and genetics. Hense, the relation of eveloution to medicine. We do not claim to be infallible, you do. Learning,Speech,&Attention Defects | Man with learning disabilities, communication disorders, ADHD, becomes author

"The creation account in Genesis and the theory of evolution could not be reconciled. One must be right and the other wrong. The story of the fossils agreed with the account of Genesis. In the oldest rocks we did not find a series of fossils covering the gradual changes from the most primitive creatures to developed forms, but rather in the oldest rocks, developed species suddenly appeared. Between every species there was a complete absence of intermediate fossils." D.B. Gower, "Scientist Rejects Evolution, "Kentish Times, England, December 11, 1975, p. 4. (Biochemist.)