Birds of a feather...

@Sabz5150,

85% of the US population couldn't find the country of Monaco on a map. We're just a stupid nation. Last time I checked, evolution was still on top in most places. Do you disagree with just saying 'Many people of religion don't believe this,' or just with stuff like teaching ID as evolution might be taught?

I think that you harbor a deep hostility toward religion, it's easy to see you're not simply a proponent of evolution.

1 Reply

@Reagaknight,

Reagaknight;54024 wrote:

85% of the US population couldn't find the country of Monaco on a map.

Ah, the US educational system, hard at work! Where school is more of a lovechild between a fashion show and cage fighting than a place of learning. Numero uno problem affecting us domestically.

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We're just a stupid nation.

And quickly starting to act like one.

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Last time I checked, evolution was still on top in most places.

Most places not including America. Why? Because the educational system is afraid of religious backlash. There is no other reason.

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Do you disagree with just saying 'Many people of religion don't believe this,' or just with stuff like teaching ID as evolution might be taught?

Both.

Number one: Why? Why does this need to be mentioned in a science class?

Number two: ID is not science. Therefore it should not be taught within a science class. You don't teach algebra in literature class, do you? I wouldn't expect to be taking a diesel engine apart in wood shop, either.

Wanna teach ID? It's called "Religious Studies", better known as "Theology". Would I expect to hear lectures on Origins or [/i]Brief History of Time[/i] in these classes? Nope. That's the Theo class.

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I think that you harbor a deep hostility toward religion, it's easy to see you're not simply a proponent of evolution.

I am a proponent of science. In this view, my discord for religion (mainly Christianity), stems from the almost constant attempts to push REAL science aside in light of more... designed ideas.

Uhoh, here comes that scratch in the record.... wait for it...

It is not science!

These hypotheses are untestable, without any evidence, contradict every single thing we have learned in almost every field, and are pushed into the classrooms and onto the media through sheer political pressure. No attempts are made to peer review these hypotheses, or follow any of the scientific methods and methodology whatsoever. To add insult to injury, REAL science is repeatedly attacked and sometimes made to be feared through religious and political pressure. Not only evolution, but cosmology, paleontology, genetics, geology, the list just... keeps... going.

I deeply apologize that there's no evidence for a supreme being. I'm so terribly sorry that the Earth is four billion years older than you thought. Bad news man... we're related to monkeys, and worse, we're descendants of a fish.

But ya know what? Them's the breaks. Deal.

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@Sabz5150,

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I'm so terribly sorry that the Earth is four billion years older than you thought

Oh really, I was under the impression it was 4,599,994,000 years older than you are instructing me to have thought based on the fact that I am religious.

1 Reply

@Reagaknight,

Reagaknight;54049 wrote:

Oh really, I was under the impression it was 4,599,994,000 years older than you are instructing me to have thought based on the fact that I am religious.

That list of statements was not aimed directly at you, I know what your stances are concerning evo and earth age. They were aimed at the young-earthers... the ones causing all the hooplah.

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@Reagaknight,

Reagaknight;53984 wrote:

Cause we all hang around schools just in case someone starts praying.

Actually I'm pretty sure students aren't allowed to pray, and I would know if students prayed since I volunteer at a public school.

2 Replies

@Fatal Freedoms,

Fatal_Freedoms;54055 wrote:

Actually I'm pretty sure students aren't allowed to pray, and I would know if students prayed since I volunteer at a public school.

I attended public school and graduated in '04. A student at the school fell out of the back of a truck and the outlook did not look well, the school held an assembly to talk about it and such and the administration said that if we (the students) wanted to get together and pray then it was fine but no faculty members where allowed to take part or lead. Also before football games the team would kneel in the end zone and pray again coaches and staff where not allowed to participate. I suppose this was okay because it was not an "endorsed" event or something along those lines. I attended a very small school so maybe that had a lot to do with it.

1 Reply

@Drakej,

Drakej;54064 wrote:

I attended public school and graduated in '04. A student at the school fell out of the back of a truck and the outlook did not look well, the school held an assembly to talk about it and such and the administration said that if we (the students) wanted to get together and pray then it was fine but no faculty members where allowed to take part or lead. Also before football games the team would kneel in the end zone and pray again coaches and staff where not allowed to participate. I suppose this was okay because it was not an "endorsed" event or something along those lines. I attended a very small school so maybe that had a lot to do with it.

If they want to get together and pray for someone's recovery, that's perfectly fine by me. If football players want to pray with the coach before a game, that's perfectly fine by me too. For me, that's not where the concern is. That's the part of the Constitution saying 'freedom of religion.

However, if in this situation, the principal were to start praying over the loudspeaker... no. If the teachers prayed in their classes... no. If the football game itself were led by a prayer... no. That's where the line is drawn.

In the situation of the person falling of the truck, if the principal were to announce that anyone wishing to gather and pray or whatnot can join in the assembly hall, hey... that's fine. The rest of us can stay in our classes. Don't worry, we "atheists" aren't going to nuke the school while your back is turned for a few minutes. We'll all play Splinter Cell on our PSPs or something.

It's a very easy line to follow. Pray, yes. Advocate, no.

1 Reply

@Fatal Freedoms,

Fatal_Freedoms;54055 wrote:

Actually I'm pretty sure students aren't allowed to pray, and I would know if students prayed since I volunteer at a public school.

Of course they can pray, you wanna violate their civil rights?

1 Reply

@Sabz5150,

Sabz5150;54065 wrote:

If they want to get together and pray for someone's recovery, that's perfectly fine by me. If football players want to pray with the coach before a game, that's perfectly fine by me too. For me, that's not where the concern is. That's the part of the Constitution saying 'freedom of religion.

However, if in this situation, the principal were to start praying over the loudspeaker... no. If the teachers prayed in their classes... no. If the football game itself were led by a prayer... no. That's where the line is drawn.

In the situation of the person falling of the truck, if the principal were to announce that anyone wishing to gather and pray or whatnot can join in the assembly hall, hey... that's fine. The rest of us can stay in our classes. Don't worry, we "atheists" aren't going to nuke the school while your back is turned for a few minutes. We'll all play Splinter Cell on our PSPs or something.

It's a very easy line to follow. Pray, yes. Advocate, no.

I agree completely and that is exactly how it went down, those who chose to participate that was fine but it was not enforced or required by anyone. I think your last sentence sums it all up very nicely.

0 Replies

@Reagaknight,

Reagaknight;54067 wrote:

Of course they can pray, you wanna violate their civil rights?

Does it violate a Buddhists right to not be allow meditatation in the houses of congress? Does it violate the right of jews to not be allowed to place a minorah in the white house? Does it violate the right of a pagan to not be allowed to sacrifice a cow in a court house? Does it violate the right of American Indians to not be allowed to smoke the "peace pipe" in schools?

The freedom to practice has been limited from government property, as many court cases have established this.

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@Sabz5150,

Does it violate the civil rights of a muslim girl not to be allowed to wear a veil in her school? work place? university?

1 Reply

@politically-wrong,

politically-wrong;54098 wrote:

Does it violate the civil rights of a muslim girl not to be allowed to wear a veil in her school? work place? university?

no.

Of course wearing cloths isn't a practice or ritual.

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@Fatal Freedoms,

Fatal_Freedoms;54104 wrote:

no.

Of course wearing cloths isn't a practice or ritual.

Well in Islam it is at the core of islamic rituals, specificly mentioned , and is a must, so it violates their rights.

1 Reply

@Sabz5150,

When I was in high school, there were several women wearing the 'standard' veil required by Muslim tradition. Several students and a teacher, actually. Nobody bothered them. School rules addressed this, mainly because the rules also said that no hats or 'headgear' were allowed to be worn. This also allowed the Jewish to wear their religious attire.

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@Sabz5150,

check out germany , muslim women are not allowed to wear a veil

1 Reply

@politically-wrong,

politically-wrong;54134 wrote:

check out germany , muslim women are not allowed to wear a veil

we are not talking about germany.

1 Reply

@politically-wrong,

politically-wrong;54124 wrote:

Well in Islam it is at the core of islamic rituals, specificly mentioned , and is a must, so it violates their rights.

No, it is more of a tradition than it is a ritual. Rituals are things you do, you cannot "do" a traditional clothing.

Wearing traditional clothing is more of a religious expression and is thus strictly protected under the U.S. constitution.

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@Sabz5150,

OK this is my mistake , its not a ritual ( as per ur understanding of the word), but its not a tradition ( as per anyones understanding of the word), it was not here before islam , its a rule , a teaching , in Islam a female must wear clothes in a particular way generally descriped in the Qura'an , what ever u call it ( ritual by me ) its a must for them , i suppose just like the jewish head wear ( i dont know its name ) .

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@Fatal Freedoms,

Fatal_Freedoms;54141 wrote:

we are not talking about germany.

You are right , we are talking about the west generally " atleast i thought so"

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@politically-wrong,

politically-wrong;54174 wrote:

OK this is my mistake , its not a ritual ( as per ur understanding of the word), but its not a tradition ( as per anyones understanding of the word), it was not here before islam , its a rule , a teaching , in Islam a female must wear clothes in a particular way generally descriped in the Qura'an , what ever u call it ( ritual by me ) its a must for them , i suppose just like the jewish head wear ( i dont know its name ) .

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

1 Reply

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