why are you christian?

Lilith;27374 wrote:

Pinochet73;27363 wrote:

I guess I was right.

No.....I was right. This is you. Ha.

[QUOTE='Truth' Re-Minder;27355]

Follow what path works for you. I learned that there are many things not being taught in churches today, things that question the very foundation of the Bible. Anyone willing to study these things can see the all to obvious and likly course of events. But for those who have a vested interest that their beliefs be true either won't see it, or distract themselves with judgement. At the end we must all decide if we really want to know the truth, or stick with what we believe, have been taught, etc.

Not be critical, but how can you put such faith in the 'word of God' when you don't even know its true origins? This dosen't mean what you have experienced didn' happen, but that there is far more to all this then you now realize. I can say this because I have been right where you are, not to de-validate where you are, but there is so much more.

This is dedicated to our new pagans:

Demi-Urge: Gnosticism (from Greek gnosis, knowledge) refers to a diverse, syncretistic religious movement consisting of various belief systems generally united in the teaching that humans are divine souls trapped in a material world created by an imperfect spirit, the demiurge, who is frequently identified with the Abrahamic God. The demiurge, who is often depicted as an embodiment of evil, at other times as simply imperfect and as benevolent as its inadequacy allows, exists alongside another remote and unknowable supreme being that embodies good. In order to free oneself from the inferior material world, one needs gnosis, or esoteric spiritual knowledge available only to a learned elite. Jesus of Nazareth is identified by some (though not all) Gnostic sects as an embodiment of the supreme being who became incarnate to bring gnosis to the Earth.

Gnosticism was popular in the Mediterranean and middle eastern regions in the first centuries of the common era, but it was suppressed as a dualistic heresy in areas controlled by the Roman Empire when Christianity became its official religion in the fourth century. Conversion to Islam greatly reduced the remaining number of Gnostics throughout the middle ages, though a few isolated communities continue to exist to the present. Gnostic ideas became influential in the philosophies of various esoteric mystical movements of the late 19th and 20th centuries in Europe and North America, including some that explicitly identify themselves as revivals or even continuations of earlier gnostic groups.

Source: Wikipedia

[QUOTE='Truth' Re-Minder;27355]

Follow what path works for you. I learned that there are many things not being taught in churches today, things that question the very foundation of the Bible. Anyone willing to study these things can see the all to obvious and likly course of events. But for those who have a vested interest that their beliefs be true either won't see it, or distract themselves with judgement. At the end we must all decide if we really want to know the truth, or stick with what we believe, have been taught, etc.

Not be critical, but how can you put such faith in the 'word of God' when you don't even know its true origins? This dosen't mean what you have experienced didn' happen, but that there is far more to all this then you now realize. I can say this because I have been right where you are, not to de-validate where you are, but there is so much more.

[QUOTE='Truth' Re-Minder;27401]

Campbell34;27381 wrote:

There is only one path that leads to God, and that is the path laid down for us by Jesus Christ. What I know about the Christian faith I learned from the Bible, for I don't even go to church because of my job. I can put faith in the Bible, because it prophecies are true. And I can tell you, that you have never been where I have been because if had, you would be a Christian today. You looked at the Bible and used your mental reasoning to consider it's truth. I on the other hand, did what the Bible instructed us to do. I searched for God with all my heart, mind, and soul. And after I did this, God began to reveal who He was to me. I can now say that God has actually spoke to me in a voice that I could hear. The God of the Bible is nolonger a story book person to me, He is real, and He is alive.
Muslims around the world that are truly seeking God in truth are now finding out the same thing. Jesus Christ is appearing to many of them in dreams and telling them to follow Him. Muslims are starting to walk into Christian churches and telling the Christians they donot need conversion, for they have all ready given their life to Christ, they just need Bibles and instruction on how to live for Jesus. What is happening today is a mordern day miracle of God. And this is not a likly course of events.

I did the same thing. I sincerly asked God for the truth, as Solomon asked for wisdom. And God told me that to know truth I had to surrender all my beliefs about God and Jesus, including the Bible and what it says. "Blessed are the poor in spirit (empty of conviction) for they shall know God". "It is easier for a rich man (someone rich in conviction) to enter the eye of a needle then to enter the kingdom of heaven." "where is the Kingdom of heaven? Within you." You cannot truly understand the Bible, unless you relinquish all your faith in the Bible. We are to read it in "In spirit and in truth" but we cannot read in spirit and truth until we enter the kingdom of heaven, which is within us. And we cannot go within to the Kingdom because our beliefs that the Bible is the word of God literally steal our attention and enslave our mind. "ye must be as little children" Or wholly ignorant of the Bible, to even begin to understand it. From your posts you have yet to do this, therefore all you know thus far...

Lets just say what you think is keeping you connected to Jesus is actually preventing you from knowing him on a deeper level. If you can do this, when you read the Bible in spirit and in truth, you will know which parts of it are false, and which parts are true. The highest form of commuication is feeling, not word or thought. And essentially there are only 2 feelings, good and bad. If what you read feels good it is true, if it feels bad it is false. This is why all the judgemental and conditional passages feel bad because they are not true. We have just been conditioned not to read the Bible with our feelings. You must learn to read the Bible as it was meant to be read, with the heart. Even what I have written here, do not compare it what you know of the Bible. But simply feel what I am saying. Your mind should be completely silent. If this feels good, on the deepest level of your being it is true for you. If it feels bad then it is not. However since this may be challeging your current belief system, it may evoke deep subconscious fear, do not confuse this with the bad feeling. If you are willing to be honest, you will know. But if you are not willing to give up what you currently believe (you can always go back) then you won't get this as that will skew the process.

Blessed be brother.

By the way, all paths lead to God, he is so big... you can't miss.

[QUOTE='Truth' Re-Minder;27401]

I did the same thing. I sincerly asked God for the truth, as Solomon asked for wisdom. And God told me that to know truth I had to surrender all my beliefs about God and Jesus, including the Bible and what it says. "Blessed are the poor in spirit (empty of conviction) for they shall know God". "It is easier for a rich man (someone rich in conviction) to enter the eye of a needle then to enter the kingdom of heaven." "where is the Kingdom of heaven? Within you." You cannot truly understand the Bible, unless you relinquish all your faith in the Bible. We are to read it in "In spirit and in truth" but we cannot read in spirit and truth until we enter the kingdom of heaven, which is within us. And we cannot go within to the Kingdom because our beliefs that the Bible is the word of God literally steal our attention and enslave our mind. "ye must be as little children" Or wholly ignorant of the Bible, to even begin to understand it. From your posts you have yet to do this, therefore all you know thus far...

Lets just say what you think is keeping you connected to Jesus is actually preventing you from knowing him on a deeper level. If you can do this, when you read the Bible in spirit and in truth, you will know which parts of it are false, and which parts are true. The highest form of commuication is feeling, not word or thought. And essentially there are only 2 feelings, good and bad. If what you read feels good it is true, if it feels bad it is false. This is why all the judgemental and conditional passages feel bad because they are not true. We have just been conditioned not to read the Bible with our feelings. You must learn to read the Bible as it was meant to be read, with the heart. Even what I have written here, do not compare it what you know of the Bible. But simply feel what I am saying. Your mind should be completely silent. If this feels good, on the deepest level of your being it is true for you. If it feels bad then it is not. However since this may be challeging your current belief system, it may evoke deep subconscious fear, do not confuse this with the bad feeling. If you are willing to be honest, you will know. But if you are not willing to give up what you currently believe (you can always go back) then you won't get this as that will skew the process.

Blessed be brother.

By the way, all paths lead to God, he is so big... you can't miss.

[QUOTE='Truth' Re-Minder;27482]

Campbell34;27425 wrote:

I would have to say if God told you to surrender your belief in the Bible, then you might want to consider the possibility that it was not God who was speaking to you. Paul's Epistle to the Galations states that if we or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. When God spoke to me He told me if I continue to follow Him He would take care of me, not once did He tell me that I should reconsider my belief in the Bible. And after all these years God has been true to His word. And I can assure you, all paths are just another way of saying all lies lead to God. Our God, is the God of truth, and not a God of lies, and false doctrines of men. Jesus fulfilled the 300 prophecies of the Old Testament. If I found comfort in lies, I would agree with the world and push that truth away. Yet because I believe in the truth of the Bible, and have seen the prophecies, I acknowledge that they speak the truth. If you refute the Bible, then you refute the only way of Salvation. Freeing your mind will only bring about your eternal damnation. The Bible tells us that the preaching of the cross to them that perish is foolishness, but to we which are alive and saved it is the power of God.

Ten bucks says on his deathbed, he'll reconvert. Either then, or when squatting in ice-water at the bottom of a foxhole, fighting Islam to retake Europe.

Campbell34;27569 wrote:

[QUOTE='Truth' Re-Minder;27482]

Ten bucks says on his deathbed, he'll reconvert. Either then, or when squatting in ice-water at the bottom of a foxhole, fighting Islam to retake Europe.

Never. Ive already died, and survived to see the otherside, as Ive illustrated already. There is nothing to fear, and what there is isn't real. The truth is when you die, you will realize what I am saying, and you will laugh at yourself for believeing in those silly stories your family and church taught you, that scared you into your faith. I'm just informing you that load you are carrying is quite unneccassy. You will have many regrets, Its not too late.

Campbell34;27569 wrote:

[QUOTE='Truth' Re-Minder;27482]

Campbell34;27425 wrote:

I would have to say if God told you to surrender your belief in the Bible, then you might want to consider the possibility that it was not God who was speaking to you. Paul's Epistle to the Galations states that if we or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. When God spoke to me He told me if I continue to follow Him He would take care of me, not once did He tell me that I should reconsider my belief in the Bible. And after all these years God has been true to His word. And I can assure you, all paths are just another way of saying all lies lead to God. Our God, is the God of truth, and not a God of lies, and false doctrines of men. Jesus fulfilled the 300 prophecies of the Old Testament. If I found comfort in lies, I would agree with the world and push that truth away. Yet because I believe in the truth of the Bible, and have seen the prophecies, I acknowledge that they speak the truth. If you refute the Bible, then you refute the only way of Salvation. Freeing your mind will only bring about your eternal damnation. The Bible tells us that the preaching of the cross to them that perish is foolishness, but to we which are alive and saved it is the power of God.

No no my brother. It was indeed God/dess. Could it be you that has it backwards? Trust me I know exactly what you are saying, I have prayed many many times, searching to make sure what I have been given is of God. And it is, because it is love. Fear is of darkside. And fear will pose as God, even and especially in the Bible, since the agents of fear are very ones who composed it, not God or his will. In fact the gnostics knew this as the false Bible was created, they even had a name for this being of fear, Ialbaloth, or as our fellow pagan Lilith has mentioned the Demiurge. What if the God you serve is actually the devil? And the one you persecute is actually God/dess. Ialbaloth had Jesus crucified, for Jesus strove to over that patriachial tyrant. Some of the Bible is true, especially the teachings of Jesus. It is clear that he served the true God, which was no God at all, but a Goddess. Our divine mother Sophia/Shekinah. Her name has been blaspemed by the false patriarchy, both the Jewish Patriarch's and the Christian.

You must ask yourself this, If you really care about Jesus and the truth; Is what I believe really what Jesus intended? Is the Bible really his infallibile and final word? Or do I fact serve the darkness which poses as God?

If you dare to ask thes questions, know this. God/dess does NOT intervene in the affairs of men. It is completely false to assume that the course of events has been scrictly controlled by the will of God. Yes it works perfectly, but part of that perfcetion is allowing imperfection to run its course. To hide behind the lie that 'Oh if God had wanted us to have a differant Bible then he would have,' reflects your desperate need to deny the message here. Remember I am not trying to convert you. I am sincerely searching for the truth, and this is what God has shown me thus far. I found it hard to beleive as well. And I am certainly not saying I have all the answers, nor that I believe 100% that the gnostics are right. But I AM saying that there is so much information out there, so much to experience that contradicts the Bible that you cannot believe in any religion 100%, which is exactly what God planned. In other words God's plan is that there is no plan, or that we make it up as we go along. So question everything, EVERYTHING! Nothing is untouchable, nothing is that sacred, nothing is infalliable in this world. Get out of your head, and into your heart. If can crack the spell of your belief then I will have served you, and God/dess. Maybe a bit of Gnostic light can enter through that crack. Now you know way Paul hated the Gnostics so. Not because they were wrong, but that he was, and they threatened his half-gnostic interpretations.

The real question here is honesty, only those who have something to lose will lie to themselves. I have nothing to lose here, sincerely. But you do. Do you not see how the mind searches for answers to anything that 'threatens' what you believe? Anything to keep you from accepting a differant reality, a differant view. If your faith in the Bible is that fragile, then is really faith? And if a book demands your complete, unquestioning trust in it, then it is worth no trust at all.

TRUTH IS SUFFICIENT UNTO ITSELF. IT NEEDS NOT CONVINCE, DEMAND, THREATEN, OR CONVERT.

Just look at nature. It is. A tree does not try to grow, it grows. A bird does not try to fly it flies. This is the wisdom of the heart, a wisdom we all have access to. And if your Bible dosen't allow, encourage, and nurish the development of your own wisdom then it isn't worth the honor of your attention. Especially since the wisdom of heart is far closer to God then any work of man including your Bible.

Even now you search for reason to make me wrong. Do you not? Even now you go back to faith. Do you not? I know the Christian mind. It is the mind of a tyrant/crusader as pino, or a slave. Of course there is the enlightened Christian, but I take that none of you hold Gnostics and Mystics in very much esteem.

By the way let us be clear on one thing. The development of the Bible was NOT overseen by God, but by man. Your assumption, which is a common one is perhaps the greatest error in Christian thinking today.

Campbell34;27569 wrote:

Never. Ive already died, and survived to see the otherside, as Ive illustrated already. There is nothing to fear, and what there is isn't real. The truth is when you die, you will realize what I am saying, and you will laugh at yourself for believeing in those silly stories your family and church taught you, that scared you into your faith. I'm just informing you that load you are carrying is quite unneccassy. You will have many regrets, Its not too late.

Campbell34;27569 wrote:

[QUOTE='Truth' Re-Minder;27482] No no my brother. It was indeed God/dess. Could it be you that has it backwards? Trust me I know exactly what you are saying, I have prayed many many times, searching to make sure what I have been given is of God. And it is, because it is love. Fear is of darkside. And fear will pose as God, even and especially in the Bible, since the agents of fear are very ones who composed it, not God or his will. In fact the gnostics knew this as the false Bible was created, they even had a name for this being of fear, Ialbaloth, or as our fellow pagan Lilith has mentioned the Demiurge. What if the God you serve is actually the devil? And the one you persecute is actually God/dess. Ialbaloth had Jesus crucified, for Jesus strove to over that patriachial tyrant. Some of the Bible is true, especially the teachings of Jesus. It is clear that he served the true God, which was no God at all, but a Goddess. Our divine mother Sophia/Shekinah. Her name has been blaspemed by the false patriarchy, both the Jewish Patriarch's and the Christian.

You must ask yourself this, If you really care about Jesus and the truth; Is what I believe really what Jesus intended? Is the Bible really his infallibile and final word? Or do I fact serve the darkness which poses as God?

If you dare to ask thes questions, know this. God/dess does NOT intervene in the affairs of men. It is completely false to assume that the course of events has been scrictly controlled by the will of God. Yes it works perfectly, but part of that perfcetion is allowing imperfection to run its course. To hide behind the lie that 'Oh if God had wanted us to have a differant Bible then he would have,' reflects your desperate need to deny the message here. Remember I am not trying to convert you. I am sincerely searching for the truth, and this is what God has shown me thus far. I found it hard to beleive as well. And I am certainly not saying I have all the answers, nor that I believe 100% that the gnostics are right. But I AM saying that there is so much information out there, so much to experience that contradicts the Bible that you cannot believe in any religion 100%, which is exactly what God planned. In other words God's plan is that there is no plan, or that we make it up as we go along. So question everything, EVERYTHING! Nothing is untouchable, nothing is that sacred, nothing is infalliable in this world. Get out of your head, and into your heart. If can crack the spell of your belief then I will have served you, and God/dess. Maybe a bit of Gnostic light can enter through that crack. Now you know way Paul hated the Gnostics so. Not because they were wrong, but that he was, and they threatened his half-gnostic interpretations.

The real question here is honesty, only those who have something to lose will lie to themselves. I have nothing to lose here, sincerely. But you do. Do you not see how the mind searches for answers to anything that 'threatens' what you believe? Anything to keep you from accepting a differant reality, a differant view. If your faith in the Bible is that fragile, then is really faith? And if a book demands your complete, unquestioning trust in it, then it is worth no trust at all.

TRUTH IS SUFFICIENT UNTO ITSELF. IT NEEDS NOT CONVINCE, DEMAND, THREATEN, OR CONVERT.

Just look at nature. It is. A tree does not try to grow, it grows. A bird does not try to fly it flies. This is the wisdom of the heart, a wisdom we all have access to. And if your Bible dosen't allow, encourage, and nurish the development of your own wisdom then it isn't worth the honor of your attention. Especially since the wisdom of heart is far closer to God then any work of man including your Bible.

Even now you search for reason to make me wrong. Do you not? Even now you go back to faith. Do you not? I know the Christian mind. It is the mind of a tyrant/crusader as pino, or a slave. Of course there is the enlightened Christian, but I take that none of you hold Gnostics and Mystics in very much esteem.

By the way let us be clear on one thing. The development of the Bible was NOT overseen by God, but by man. Your assumption, which is a common one is perhaps the greatest error in Christian thinking today.

God is big enought to get His book published, as I have stated. God has always used men that were both good and evil to get His will done. I don't have to search for reasons to make you wrong, I just believe in what God has told me all ready. And that was, if I continue to follow Him He would take car of me. And the way I have always follow God was through His Word the Bible. Gnostics were a bunch of Jonny come latelys, who produced writings 200 years after the fact which now counterdicts first hand Biblical accounts. Those are the ones you might look to as the enlightened ones, I just call them liars. When God spoke to me, He did not tell me to follow the Gnostics, He did tell me if I continued to follow Him, and that is what I have done throught the Bible. If you think that Gods Word is a toy you can play with, that is your choice. Yet remember, eternal life come at a high price, and your fate hangs on Gods Words of truth that you now treat as a toy. If the God I serve were the Devil He would of treated me in an evil way. yet the God I serve has always lifted me up, and defended me. And fear is instilled in the man of God, for the Bible has told us, that fear is the beginning of wisdom. When you are young your parent speaks to you sometimes in a stern way, but does so in order to keep you from a worse fate. God is the same way, He warns you ahead of time to keep you from evil. For years the Bible had warned mankind about the evils of sexual imorality. The liberal groups spent much time telling us how wrong this was and how the Bible was surpressing mans freedom of expresion through sex. Now that tens of millions are dieing around the world from aids and other such unchecked illnesses, these same groups now blame the pope for not pushing condoms. The moral view the Bible and the church taught was thought by the world to be just silly stories, well there are millions of people today who are nolonger laughting at them. And those who have the regrets today are the ones who did not believe what the Bible and the church taught. I will have no regrets, for the Bible has taught me to live a moral life, and that life has kept me from much of the illnesses the world is now experiencing.

Truth, I promise to be nicer to you, if you promise to be smarter. Do we have a deal?

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God is big enought to get His book published,

Again not his book, no more then other written, published and edited by men. I know you won't budge on this piont since its all you have to support your faith, that and your relationship with God which I actually want to improve.

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God has always used men that were both good and evil to get His will done.

If God wanted something it would be so. Using us to his will is another misconception that has caused great error in thinking. And nicely justifies your view. How quiant. See you already have a reason for everything, whether its true or not. Anything to keep from questioning the validaty of the Bible.

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I don't have to search for reasons to make you wrong,

Ah thats right you already know them. I

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just believe in what God has told me all ready.And that was, if I continue to follow Him He would take car of me. And the way I have always follow God was through His Word the Bible.

That wasn't God, my friend. God's love in unconditional, only humans and other being are conditional.

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after the fact which now counterdicts first hand Biblical accounts.

Those accounts are hardly first hand they were secondary, that right there is a big reason to seriuosly doubt the validity of the Bible, come on, your faith is based on heresay. I can't beleive what you beleive is seriously based on 2nd and 3rd hand accounts. Totally illogical. That would never hold up in a court. Think friend, THINK!

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Those are the ones you might look to as the enlightened ones, I just call them liars. When God spoke to me, He did not tell me to follow the Gnostics, He did tell me if I continued to follow Him, and that is what I have done throught the Bible.

You just don't get it do you? The Gnostics would never have you follow them and nor would Jesus. Thats the whole point of gnosticism, follow your own heart! Don't follow anyone or anything. This is why they were a threat. You would rather be a slave then be what Jesus meant you to be.

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If you think that Gods Word is a toy you can play with, that is your choice. Yet remember, eternal life come at a high price, and your fate hangs on Gods Words of truth that you now treat as a toy.

First its not God's word. I hold to the teachings of Jesus, but God knows that man has lied in his name and manipulated the Bible to ensnare mind's like you, and he allows it as that is the nature of this dimension. Fear keeps you enslaved. Not God.

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If the God I serve were the Devil He would of treated me in an evil way.

He is, you just have been fooled. Many people beleive abuse is what they deserve, and its not. The fallacy of origanal sin supports this most erronuos notion. You are perfect Brother a divne being as are we all. From birth you were made in perfection. Ant thing else is a lie and a blaspemey, I and I will challenge such falsehoods until all my brothers and sisters are free from spiritual fallacy.

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yet the God I serve has always lifted me up, and defended me.

The true God can still penetrate the veil of fear that consumes you. The challenge for all Christians is to discern between bewteen fear and love. Fear is of the darkness, love is of light, we are mixtures of the 2. This what makes this so difficult because much of what you experience of God is real, you just have false associations (frome biblical programming) that makes you confused. So you go to the Bible, which is your problem. The Bible will only strengthen the prison of fear, until you re-member how to truly read and understand it.

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And fear is instilled in the man of God, for the Bible has told us, that fear is the beginning of wisdom.

Fear is conditioned in man from brainwashing when went to church or were taught be our parents. It is abuse, and should be stopped immediately. You are victem as was I of this abuse. Poor soul, you have been so spiritually beaten that you beleive this is how it should be. Even now you will refute this then admit the truth.

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When you are young your parent speaks to you sometimes in a stern way, but does so in order to keep you from a worse fate. God is the same way, He warns you ahead of time to keep you from evil.

Consequences are one thing yes, but there is no true evil, no real danger. Again the prison of fear has you enthralled.

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For years the Bible had warned mankind about the evils of sexual imorality.

Sex that is done in love is the most sacred act we can ever do. The greatest sin of the old testament was making sex wrong. A clear sign of the Demiurge in his war against the Goddess, as sex was her sacred intiantion. Your ignorance of this should be enough to caose you to doubt what you beleive. How can you be so sure of your faith when you don't even know the otherside? Its ok to say you don't know. There are many things I don't know. No one knows it all. As men we pretend to know it all, when we don't, but this is a cover for insecurity. But back to the subject, you have passed judgement when you have only heard one side of the strory. This is the bigest probelm with Christians today. And is exactly why you all are so wrong. You don't know, and you don't want to. Because this knowlege could cause you to change your beliefs. Because it is the truth.

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The liberal groups spent much time telling us how wrong this was and how the Bible was surpressing mans freedom of expresion through sex.

And they were absolutely correct. Although not perfect Liberal groups have represented 'God's will' far more then conservative group's over the past decade's. And your struggle against them is been a struggle against the very God you serve.

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Now that tens of millions are dieing around the world from aids and other such unchecked illnesses, these same groups now blame the pope for not pushing condoms.

So this is God's punishmnet?

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The moral view the Bible and the church taught was thought by the world to be just silly stories, well there are millions of people today who are nolonger laughting at them. And those who have the regrets today are the ones who did not believe what the Bible and the church taught.

If you actually believe this then you are so wrong so outa line. :eek: Most of the people who have aids, have it not because of 'immorality' but lack education, which could be prevented if supplied with protection. The church the restricts supplying protection has there blood on there hands. If anyone is going to hell (which no one will) then most Christians will be there. As there hypocrises have caused more death and sorrow then even Muslims.

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I will have no regrets, for the Bible has taught me to live a moral life, and that life has kept me from much of the illnesses the world is now experiencing.

Fool yourself all you like. You will have regrets. I swear it. Trust, have sex with next person you can, as long as its consentual, loveing ect. Do not let moral fallices keep you from living and enjoying life. If you do you will regret it. I sense my whole purpose here is to trell you this. Your soul wants me to tell you this, so you can start living your life.

Again not his book, no more then other written, published and edited by men. I know you won't budge on this piont since its all you have to support your faith, that and your relationship with God which I actually want to improve.

If God wanted something it would be so. Using us to his will is another misconception that has caused great error in thinking. And nicely justifies your view. How quiant. See you already have a reason for everything, whether its true or not. Anything to keep from questioning the validaty of the Bible. Ah thats right you already know them. I That wasn't God, my friend. God's love in unconditional, only humans and other being are conditional. Those accounts are hardly first hand they were secondary, that right there is a big reason to seriuosly doubt the validity of the Bible, come on, your faith is based on heresay. I can't beleive what you beleive is seriously based on 2nd and 3rd hand accounts. Totally illogical. That would never hold up in a court. Think friend, THINK! You just don't get it do you? The Gnostics would never have you follow them and nor would Jesus. Thats the whole point of gnosticism, follow your own heart! Don't follow anyone or anything. This is why they were a threat. You would rather be a slave then be what Jesus meant you to be. First its not God's word. I hold to the teachings of Jesus, but God knows that man has lied in his name and manipulated the Bible to ensnare mind's like you, and he allows it as that is the nature of this dimension. Fear keeps you enslaved. Not God. He is, you just have been fooled. Many people beleive abuse is what they deserve, and its not. The fallacy of origanal sin supports this most erronuos notion. You are perfect Brother a divne being as are we all. From birth you were made in perfection. Ant thing else is a lie and a blaspemey, I and I will challenge such falsehoods until all my brothers and sisters are free from spiritual fallacy. The true God can still penetrate the veil of fear that consumes you. The challenge for all Christians is to discern between bewteen fear and love. Fear is of the darkness, love is of light, we are mixtures of the 2. This what makes this so difficult because much of what you experience of God is real, you just have false associations (frome biblical programming) that makes you confused. So you go to the Bible, which is your problem. The Bible will only strengthen the prison of fear, until you re-member how to truly read and understand it. Fear is conditioned in man from brainwashing when went to church or were taught be our parents. It is abuse, and should be stopped immediately. You are victem as was I of this abuse. Poor soul, you have been so spiritually beaten that you beleive this is how it should be. Even now you will refute this then admit the truth. Consequences are one thing yes, but there is no true evil, no real danger. Again the prison of fear has you enthralled. Sex that is done in love is the most sacred act we can ever do. The greatest sin of the old testament was making sex wrong. A clear sign of the Demiurge in his war against the Goddess, as sex was her sacred intiantion. Your ignorance of this should be enough to caose you to doubt what you beleive. How can you be so sure of your faith when you don't even know the otherside? Its ok to say you don't know. There are many things I don't know. No one knows it all. As men we pretend to know it all, when we don't, but this is a cover for insecurity. But back to the subject, you have passed judgement when you have only heard one side of the strory. This is the bigest probelm with Christians today. And is exactly why you all are so wrong. You don't know, and you don't want to. Because this knowlege could cause you to change your beliefs. Because it is the truth. And they were absolutely correct. Although not perfect Liberal groups have represented 'God's will' far more then conservative group's over the past decade's. And your struggle against them is been a struggle against the very God you serve. So this is God's punishmnet? If you actually believe this then you are so wrong so outa line. :eek: Most of the people who have aids, have it not because of 'immorality' but lack education, which could be prevented if supplied with protection. The church the restricts supplying protection has there blood on there hands. If anyone is going to hell (which no one will) then most Christians will be there. As there hypocrises have caused more death and sorrow then even Muslims. Fool yourself all you like. You will have regrets. I swear it. Trust, have sex with next person you can, as long as its consentual, loveing ect. Do not let moral fallices keep you from living and enjoying life. If you do you will regret it. I sense my whole purpose here is to trell you this. Your soul wants me to tell you this, so you can start living your life.