Are we here to serve God or is God to serve man?

So he knew his creation would fail and yet he created them anyway and then punished them for doing exactly what he designed them to do? How much sense does that make?

Why didn't he create people who could have resisted temptation the first time?

You still haven't answered the question. Why must there be a blood sacrifice to have forgiveness? I don't need a blood sacrifice to forgive friends and family, so why does god? Am I more forgiving than Yahweh?

He didn't design them to fail. They were free to succeed or fail according to what they choose.


He did. They could have resisted but chose not to.

Yahweh is our judge so he must punish sin. You don't have any reponsibility for judging or punishing the sins of others so your can simply choose not to hold their sins against them. If God did this he would be condoning their sins.

Okay, let me rephrase. Why didn't god create humans who would chose not to disobey?

I am not talking about punishment, I am talking about forgiveness.

Why is blood sacrifice a requirement for forgiveness? Do you understand the question?

I don't know. Since God is infinite and I am not it is impossible for me to understand why God does anything unless he chooses to explain the reason for his actions. I suspect the reason he doesn't reveal the reasons for some of his actions is that we are simply incapable of understanding them.

I understand the question but did you understand my answer? Punishment and forgiveness are linked. God is a holy judge who cannot endure sin so his nature demands that it be punished. But he loves us and wants to forgive us. Having someone who is sinless pay for our sins is the only way he can do both of these things.

If he wants to forgive us then why not just forgive us, why go through the lengthy and unnecessary process of sacrificing a messiah?

Because he is holy and by his nature he can't allow any sin or wrong to go unpunished. What God does about sin is simply the result of what he is.

Like I said before, I'm not asking why he gave a punishment, I'm asking why he needs blood sacrifice to forgive.

Imagine you are Adam, now assume god has already punished you and all your future children (how cruel)...you've already been punished.....now Yahweh is about to forgive you, but before he can do that he has to kill his son first, the question is why?

It isn't really necessary for us to understand why God requires a blood sacrifice and I suspect we can never really understand it completely.

But that was my question. If this is truly how you feel then why didn't you just say "I don't know" when I asked?

Because the reason for a sacrifice seems plain to me and I hoped that I could explain it so you can understand it too. But if you don't understand what I said it doesn't really matter, because it is possible to believe in God without understanding the reasons for what he does.

If "we can never really understand it", then how is it that you understand it so plainly?

I don't understand it completely but I understand it well enough so that I can easily see why a sacrifice is needed. God doesn't require that we understand everything about him but he does requires that we act of what we do understand. If we obey him we will find that we will begin to learn more about him.

So you understand it but can't explain it?

I have explained it.

Perhaps the reason you can't understand me if found in 2 Corinthians 4:4, "the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ."

I have explained it.

Perhaps the reason you can't understand me if found in 2 Corinthians 4:4, "the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ."

No, you were fixated on punishment which was irrelevant to the specific question I asked. Then you kind of danced around the question while never directly addressing it.

Furthermore I would ask why a sacrifice needs to be made at all. If Yahweh is omnipotent why can't he snap his fingers and say "I forgive you"? What is requiring him to make a sacrifice?

Punishment is not irrelevant to your question. In fact it is impossible to answer it without bringing up the subject of punishment.

Here is your original question.
The fact that he is omnipotent means that he can do anything he chooses to do, but his nature determines what choices he makes. He is holy and cannot allow sin to exist, but he must punish it. We have all sinned and therefore deserve to be punished. [SIZE="4"]The only way[/SIZE] to punish our sins and spare us is to transfer our sins to an innocent person who will then take the punishment we deserve. Jesus qualified to be this sacrifice because he didn't have any sins of his own that needed to be punished but he was willing to take our sins and bear the punishment we deserve. Because he was God as well as man his death was enough to pay for all of our sins so that anyone who puts his faith in him can be forgiven.