Are we here to serve God or is God to serve man?

Why we, Gods perfect works would need saving, remains unanswered.

My belief-
We need to look deeply into the fact that why was this universe created to understand who serves whom.

As per my knowledge and religion-
We are born to serve god, but not for HIS benefit, but for ours. We pray, worship and follow the path for our well being, for nirvana or moksha. Moksha is defined as assimilation of our souls into GOD's which is the last step of our life cycle (if u believe in rebirth stuff.)

Now about the punishment thing- I feel that we follow the path which designed for our well being, its a kind of balance that has to be achieved or needs to be achieved by following those rules. If we are not following them, certainly there is going to be a imbalance that will result into some output. Now if you take the output as punishment its punishment if u take the output as fruits of your deeds then its fruits. God doesnt punish, he is there to help and not punish, its we who do the wrong and get the deeds accordingly. The best example i can think is Electricity- If u respect it, u can get the best out of it, if u ignore and misuse it, its going to shock you.

I do not have much knowledge of Christianity but surely there is hell as per hinduism, and everyone has to pass through it, we believe that there are yugas, and this is said to be the last yuga, n it also means that we are those souls who didnt get filtered (or pass to GOD's standards) and drained to the last yuga. It also means that we are surely going to be in hell, but as per deeds we do in this life.

About being perfect- No we are not, there are lots of things we did and do wrong so we have been here in the Kali yuga. Even the basics of being perfect are not with us. The following as per my mere knowledge are to be there to be perfect
We should avoid- Kaam- (Sex), Krodh (Anger), and there are others but i cant recall them as of now.

Even if u take the above two we do not find ourselves in control, we have the urge to have sex, we tend to get angry- so i guess we are not perfect right.

Sorry i didnt get this of yours "Why we, Gods perfect works would need saving

About master and slave- If You are talking in relation to God and followers, i dont think there is any slavery over here. As per my belief God has given us the freedom to follow, he doesnt catch our ears and ask us to follow, he just points to the signboards of what is to be done. Its we who are master of ourselves or slaves of ourselves.

again i think God is way above the cycles of life and death so there is no death thing for god, and for us its just like changing clothes from one life to other. its easy to say for me but its hard to accept the fact

This has often been answered. (In fact I think I answered it when you posted this on another forum.) Adam and Eve were created perfect but they were made with free wills and could choose whether or not they would obey God. They chose to disobey and they and their descendants became imperfect and sinful as a result. One of the results of sin is death. It is the reason we all die physically and those whose sins aren't forgiven will suffer eternal death in the lake of fire. (You can find out more about this by reading chapter 20 of Revelation.) The reason Jesus died and rose again was to pay for our sins so that we can be forgiven if we put our faith in him.

Why on earth should we suppose we are here FOR anything? We're here because we're here because we're here because we're here.

Why are we here? To do exactly what we all do till we die. Learn.

Regards
DL

This has often been answered. (In fact I think I answered it when you posted this on another forum.) Adam and Eve were created perfect but they were made with free wills and could choose whether or not they would obey God. They chose to disobey and they and their descendants became imperfect and sinful as a result. One of the results of sin is death. It is the reason we all die physically and those whose sins aren't forgiven will suffer eternal death in the lake of fire. (You can find out more about this by reading chapter 20 of Revelation.) The reason Jesus died and rose again was to pay for our sins so that we can be forgiven if we put our faith in him.

No - most of us DO learn, because we have that capacity, but it is wholly illegitimate to introduce the idea of purpose when we have no serious evidence for it. We are genetically and - much more - culturally disposed to do certain things, but if we were born into a different culture or religion they'd be different too. I'd would be just as logical to say we were here to die, wouldn't it?

A former christian myself, there are a few points I would raise.

If Yahweh (the christian God) is omniscient. Did not he create Adam and Eve with full knowledge that they would disobey?

What is the alternative? If Adam and eve didn't disobey God, mankind would have never been saved. Mankind would have never known Jesus.


So considering these two things, what sense does it make to punish mankind?


Furthermore I would ask why a sacrifice needs to be made at all. If Yahweh is omnipotent why can't he snap his fingers and say "I forgive you"? What is requiring him to make a sacrifice?

All dying is is another thing to learn about. As far as we know.
We do have evidence for our purpose in life. Look around. All that we do is learn. What better evidence do you need?

Regards
DL

I think you two are talking about Inherent Purpose vs Acquired Purpose.

Purpose may be unique to the individual. As far as I can tell were didn't come into existence to fill any role. Purpose May be nothing more than the reason we wake up in morning. Certainly some people don't have a purpose, but for others helping sick children or fighting some injustice is their purpose.

You people must not have had children.

They love to learn.

It is the only thing that all share in common.

Regards
DL

kynaston;71410 wrote:

People can choose to have a purpose if they want one, yes. People learn - even the teapartiers - something, most of them.

I agree that we can chose a cause or purpose and go with it once mature.
Children, not so much. They still learn without a clear purpose.

Quote:

That doesn't mean that learning is the human purpose. All children have heads, but headhunting is not our 'purpose' either. The notion of a 'human purpose' is archaic, surely?

A former christian myself, there are a few points I would raise.

If Yahweh (the christian God) is omniscient. Did not he create Adam and Eve with full knowledge that they would disobey?

What is the alternative? If Adam and eve didn't disobey God, mankind would have never been saved. Mankind would have never known Jesus.

So considering these two things, what sense does it make to punish mankind?

Furthermore I would ask why a sacrifice needs to be made at all. If Yahweh is omnipotent why can't he snap his fingers and say "I forgive you"? What is requiring him to make a sacrifice?

Jesus, taking a 3 day nap and R & R does not constitute giving up anything of value so there is no real sacrifice.
No wonder then that it was denied by God. Why have you forsaken me is answered with this.

His entire life on earth was a sacrifice. Philippins 2:6-8 shows that he was equal with God but came to the earth as a servant. When he was dying and our sins were placed on him he was experienced separation from God because God cannot look on sin. That is the reason he cried out, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me." These things may not seem like big sacrifices to us because we have never known God in the way Jesus did and being a servant is our natural state, but they were for Jesus.

Yes, he knew what would happen and what he would do to remedy the situation. I don't know why he would go ahead with creating them, but apparently this will bring about some good that will outweigh the harm done.

If they hadn't disobeyed we wouldn't have needed to be saved. We would have still known Jesus but it would have been in some other capacity than as savior.

We don't know what the result of their obedience would have been. Their disobedience resulted in sin and death affecting the entire human race. It is possible that if they had obeyed their would have been as great a change in the condition of the human race but it would have been for good. C. S. Lewis wrote a novel called Perelandra in which he suggested a possible outcome. In the novel God creates another pair like Adam and Eve and they are able to resist the temptations.

We are created with the ability to choose right or wrong and we must accept the consequences of our choices.

The reason for requiring a sacrifice is based on God's character. He is just and incapable of doing wrong and allowing a sin to go unpunished would be wrong. His omnipotence means that he can do anything he wills to do but his character determines what he wills. He is just and must punish sin but he is also love and wants to forgive us. The sacrifice of Jesus was the only way he could express both his justice and his love. As Romans 3:26 says, "It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."