Most here attack or defend. Are there any that just seek God.

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Most here attack or defend. Are there any that just seek God.

It is possible that preach could have been added to the above but I thought it unnecessary.
In my journey through forums of this type, I have seen many defend their various positions with varied skill and seen debates go nowhere. I did see one person of the hundreds of whom I track actually change his mind on an issue.

If none of us come here to have our mind changed then why bother?

It occurred to me that perhaps, the underlying motivation of all here, in this tower of babble, where all listen but none hear, that we were all questioning our own thinking and that we were all searching for a new God. Or at best here, a Name to follow.

It calls the question, Are any here looking for God?

Regards
DL

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@Greatest I am cv,

God found me, but I enjoy to learn from other people. Even if we have different believes we are all part of the humanity, and there is a lot to learn from each other.

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@marcus cv,

marcus;62750 wrote:

God found me, but I enjoy to learn from other people. Even if we have different believes we are all part of the humanity, and there is a lot to learn from each other.

True.

Give how you were found. I had to work hard before I could challenge Him to show. He did.

How do you class or label yourself?

My closest label is Gnostic.

Regards
DL

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@Greatest I am cv,

I would characterize myself as a Christian rooted in the Bible. I believe that the theme of the Bible and God's intent is the relational presence of God. And, having God in life is the most challenging and exciting thing that could happen to a person.

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@marcus cv,

Quote:

My closest label is Gnostic

I read some gnostics and got scared :pnord: Smile

Some stuff is more antiChristian than Christian

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@marcus cv,

marcus;62765 wrote:

I read some gnostics and got scared :pnord:
Some stuff is more antiChristian than Christian

I am more Gnostic/without the mystisism. More naturalist.

I am anti reading scripture literally. I am Christian but anti orthodox Chritian.

The Christian God, as most see Him, is a genocidal maniac at worst and or an incompetent fool at best. Not able to get much right from Genesis on up.

Some Genostics like myself see us not so much as falling out of Eden but as a glorious leap into a history that could not exist without Eve doing the right thing and giving us moral sense that comes from the knowledge of good and evil instead of leaving us in the garden of ignorance.

Would you give up your moral sense? If not then thank God Eve ate.

Regards
DL

1 Reply

@Greatest I am cv,

Why the god question at all though? This is something that has always bothered me. I understand the motivation for religion and/or spiritualism in bygone days, but with each passing moment in this era mankind gains power over his/her surroundings. Mountains were once venerated by some cultures, today engineers blast right through them. I think it is time for the training wheels to come off.

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@physicistphilosopher,

physicistphilosopher;62813 wrote:

Why the god question at all though? This is something that has always bothered me. I understand the motivation for religion and/or spiritualism in bygone days, but with each passing moment in this era mankind gains power over his/her surroundings. Mountains were once venerated by some cultures, today engineers blast right through them. I think it is time for the training wheels to come off.

I think that man has both a political nature and a spiritual one. Should we not feed both.

I partially agree with you in the sense that we should scrap the orthodox miracle working God and highlight sayings like God helps those who help themselves.

This way both of our natures would gain.

Let's not throw out the baby with the bath water.

Regards
DL

1 Reply

@marcus cv,

marcus;62765 wrote:

I read some gnostics and got scared :pnord:
Some stuff is more antiChristian than Christian

Orthodox have always been afraid of Gnostics. We tend to ask questions that they cannot answer. Orthodox prefer sheep that bleep incoherently and are afraid of logic. It has always been so.

You could not even answer a simple question for me above.
This I think proves my point.

Regards
DL

1 Reply

@Greatest I am cv,

Greatest I am;62820 wrote:

I think that man has both a political nature and a spiritual one. Should we not feed both.

I partially agree with you in the sense that we should scrap the orthodox miracle working God and highlight sayings like God helps those who help themselves.

This way both of our natures would gain.

Let's not throw out the baby with the bath water.

Regards
DL

I'm sympathetic to your point here in a certain sense, but regarding the spiritual nature of man: Occam's Razor seems to cast a spiritual aspect of man into doubt. Just as a point of clarification: I take your use of the word spiritual to mean some thing greater than physical reality. If that isn't how you intended to use it, it may well be a whole different ball game.

1 Reply

@physicistphilosopher,

physicistphilosopher;62829 wrote:

I'm sympathetic to your point here in a certain sense, but regarding the spiritual nature of man: Occam's Razor seems to cast a spiritual aspect of man into doubt. Just as a point of clarification: I take your use of the word spiritual to mean some thing greater than physical reality. If that isn't how you intended to use it, it may well be a whole different ball game.

I see us as having a political nature as well as a spiritual nature. Both shaman and kings have been around forever.
The king looks after physical life and the shaman looks after the spirit.

I fight Fundamentals for many reasons, especially the fact that they read the Bible literally.
This is not to say that I do not know that there is a God.
There is but not in any way the way literal reading shows God.

He/It is a cosmic consciousness. No miracles.

How would Occan's Razor be applied to the fact that spirituality arose in humans of all continents and even to Neanderthal man and Homo erectus. There was no contact between these various tribes and peoples.

Regards
DL

1 Reply

@Greatest I am cv,

Greatest I am;62831 wrote:

I see us as having a political nature as well as a spiritual nature. Both shaman and kings have been around forever.
The king looks after physical life and the shaman looks after the spirit.

I fight Fundamentals for many reasons, especially the fact that they read the Bible literally.
This is not to say that I do not know that there is a God.
There is but not in any way the way literal reading shows God.

He/It is a cosmic consciousness. No miracles.

How would Occan's Razor be applied to the fact that spirituality arose in humans of all continents and even to Neanderthal man and Homo erectus. There was no contact between these various tribes and peoples.

Regards
DL

For an excellent discussion of, and I'll use your words, kings and shamans, I refer you to the first essay of Nietzsche's "On the Genealogy of Morals (or Morality, depending on your copy)".

Now, to address the concept of cosmic consciousness: The irreducible primaries are Identity, Existence, and Consciousness.

Identity is simply non-contradiction (Big round of applause for Aristotle!), that is, A=A, or if you like, Leibnitz?s Law, which states if A=B, then A and B must have the same properties.

This leaves us with Consciousness and Existence to wrestle with.

The first and most famous (and unfortunately false) formulation of the relationship between these two comes from Descartes, who posits Cogito ergo Sum, or I think therefore I am.

C -> E.

Interesting. My first intuition in dealing with this is what could a consciousness be conscious of, supposing that consciousness comes before existence?

Hmmm.

I?m definitely drawing a blank on that one.

Sum ergo Cogito, I am therefore I think (E -> C), seems to be a more motivated claim. What then is our cosmic consciousness conscious of? I?ll venture to say that is it something. Could it be that the cosmic consciousness is the engine of the universe? This is plausible if you consider Brooks? and Dreyfus? (Mark Wrathall?s ?Intentionality without Representation? helps in framing this, I can probably get it on J-Stor and e-mail it to anyone who wants it) work in AI theory, which posits (for a detailed discussion see John Haugeland?s ?Mind Design II? from MIT University Press) that embedded, embodied systems are at the very least formative of a Background notion for intelligence, which as it were, appears to be a corequisite of meaningful consciousness. The experiental stream of a dog or cat doesn?t appear to be too interesting in this discussion.

If a cosmic consciousness, or god, is the embodied and embedded mechanism that we label Universe, then Occam?s Razor does play a part here: Are we left with a (hypothetical of course) Unified Physics or a Cosmic Consciousness?

1 Reply

@physicistphilosopher,

physicistphilosopher

True to your name, you have befuddled me.

I return to my KIS system.

"Could it be that the cosmic consciousness is the engine of the universe?"

This would indicate that it is actively doing or driving the universe.

I would rather think that it was naturally -formed by man as our natural evolution-, since we can understand the thinking process there.

It is more just ridding along within the universe as we all are.

Regards
DL

0 Replies

@Greatest I am cv,

I seek truth, whatever that may be. It's our ability to overcome our own biases and pride that determines whether we find truth, and i like to think i do this well but i could be wrong just like anyone else, I am only human. There was a time when I thought god was truth and now I've come to the conclusion that if there was a god then his existence is of no concern.

1 Reply

@Fatal Freedoms,

Fatal_Freedoms;62852 wrote:

I seek truth, whatever that may be. It's our ability to overcome our own biases and pride that determines whether we find truth, and i like to think i do this well but i could be wrong just like anyone else, I am only human. There was a time when I thought god was truth and now I've come to the conclusion that if there was a god then his existence is of no concern.

Believer or not, we should all be concerned. Why. Because believers have and have had much influence in your political life. A prime example of this can be seen in the US political arena. Did God not tell Bush to go to hell. Oops I meant go to war.

Is this not an effect on all of us and enough to draw some concern from all of us?

Regards
DL

1 Reply

@Greatest I am cv,

Greatest I am;62853 wrote:

Believer or not, we should all be concerned. Why. Because believers have and have had much influence in your political life. A prime example of this can be seen in the US political arena. Did God not tell Bush to go to hell. Oops I meant go to war.

Is this not an effect on all of us and enough to draw some concern from all of us?

Regards
DL

While it may be fascinating to explore the god question from the standpoint of exposing whatever (if any) justification religious believers have in using religion as a political standpoint, I don't think that the question of god is what you are aiming at here. Rather, the concern is the nature of organized religion and the consequences thereof.

1 Reply

@physicistphilosopher,

physicistphilosopher;62874 wrote:

While it may be fascinating to explore the god question from the standpoint of exposing whatever (if any) justification religious believers have in using religion as a political standpoint, I don't think that the question of god is what you are aiming at here. Rather, the concern is the nature of organized religion and the consequences thereof.

Ii did not speak to religions nature. I indicated that all suffer it's consequences, be we religious or not. I showed a political manipulation by religion.
We are to separate religion and politics. We are fools if we think we do or indeed can. We should be honest enough to admit it. We do not.

Regards
DL

1 Reply

@Greatest I am cv,

The only thing that blocks the view of "God" is belief.

Belief in your human identity for starts.

Most wake up in this world already dressed for the roles they will play here. The think themselves real.

The metaphysical reality is you are an extention of your "soul". You are the plaything of your higher self, the radiant soul. You are not the soul itself.

When the mind isn't blocking the view of this connection, you recieve input from the higher self. In the form of compassion and love. These are not mental qualities, but come from beyond where the mind itself can go.

The human mind however will filter and select what is to be loved and what is to be despised. The mind, which is the true Satan of religious mythology, is a divider. By it's nature.

The mind is nothing more than a calulating machine. It functions as a scale does. It weighs one thing against another to determine worth. It balances itself according to belief. Belief is a very liquid thing. It changes at the drop of a hat. That's why the mind, "Satan", is a liar. It can't be trusted.

Belief, it would seem, is best avoided.

When you culitivate compassion, you expand your awareness of self far and beyond where the human mind can touch bottom. You don't find many people out this deep. Because they fear what they once held dear is going to slip away from them. Many are called...

As long as you have belief about the way things are "supposed" to be, you will not know God.

To enter the kingdom, you must arrive at the gate naked of all human belief.

It is a personal experience. Words cannot find a foothold to explain it.

You must become as a child. Naked of all belief.

Then the kingdom finds you.

x

2 Replies

@xexon,

xexon;64142 wrote:

Quote:
As long as you have belief about the way things are "supposed" to be, you will not know God.

No. In my experience, it was realizing that things are exactly the way they are supposed to be that lead me to God.

Quote:
To enter the kingdom, you must arrive at the gate naked of all human belief.

No. In my experience, I knocked and it was open to me when I went to confirm that what I perceived was truth.

Quote:
It is a personal experience. Words cannot find a foothold to explain it.

It is but it can also be explained. Most will not believe the explanation.

You must become as a child. Naked of all belief.

Quote:
Then the kingdom finds you.

The kingdom is always there waiting. The teacher does not go to find the student. It is to the student to find or recognize the teacher.
x

You speak as if God has knocked on your door.
Tell us more.

Regards
DL

1 Reply

@Greatest I am cv,

At some point in everyone's spiritual evolution, there comes a time where the practice of a faith or path comes to an end. The reason being it has fullfilled it's purpose.

Religions like Christianity hold you in a state of waiting. There's alot of thumb twiddling in the meantime. Everybody thinks Jesus is coming to take them to his kingdom.

This is a misunderstanding of his message.

Jesus would say get up and walk the path. How will you complete the journey if you stop and worship a sign post that points the way? Jesus doesn't want or need your worship, he just needs for you to keep moving. That's the only thing that is important. Not what you believe. That will change according to the scenary.

Now you want to know how I know. Right?

Maybe I've been down this path before? Maybe I slide back and forth on it every day? It's an interesting commute to work.

I was a seeker from a young age. Around 4 or 5. Knew I saw the world differently than those around me. But I endured the baptist faith as a youngster. I knew something was wrong with what the preacher was talking about, but as a preteen, you don't have much of a voice. Mine didn't come until years later.

Devoured many libraries worth of books in search of answers. Settled into eastern mysticism and never looked back. One day, a few decades ago, it all came to an abrupt end. The searching ceased. Even reading of books stopped.

I've been in a state of unfoldment ever since. I can only describe it as watching the sun come up and illuminating everything around you. It was all there to begin with, but like everyone else, I spent my time huddled around the camfire of belief in the spiritual darkness.

I can't see everything with clarity, but what I do behold is worth all that you own in this world.

x

1 Reply

Most here attack or defend. Are there any that just seek God.

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