The burden of proof always lies on positive assertions (that the bible is true) and it does not move, not even when some evidence is provided (someone said it was true). In any academic field it is always presumed that a claim or belief (that the bible is true) is false until the demand for evidence is met.
Again with the circular FOOLISH DEMANDS of hoping someone will fall for your secular ploy of demanding a straw party prove your charges of lies? As I said, it is the fool that continually demands something they are not entitled to...such as the assumption of guilt, levied by your OPINION ONLY. Amusing indeed. Again, I have NOTHING to prove, I believe....by your own display of childishness you have proven just where the LACK OF EVIDENCE LIES. For indeed, IF you had proof this entire thread would be MOOT. As your own words declared, One CAN NOT prove a negative.....the negative is the unfounded charges presented WITHOUT PROOF...made with only conjecture and speculation, clearly establishing the fact of where the NEGATIVE lies, for indeed the scriptures are declared in MODERN ENGLISH and professed to be truth. Therefore the burden of proof is upon your shoulders (the CONTINUAL "foolish" ACCUSER)....not a third party STRAW individuals shoulders. Follow the logic. The scriptures make a statement. They are believed by one party (the faithful). Disavowed as fables by another party (you the DARWINIAN CULTIST). The scriptures self declare themselves as Truth. The faithful accepts this declaration. It is only the Darwinian Cultist that refuses to accept such as truth. Now just where does the burden of proof lie if not on the shoulders of the UNBELIEVER? :dunno: if you don't. For indeed there is NOTHING to prove (on the side of the Scriptures(as they are self declared as truth) or the Faithful (they already believe), only your side (demands proof of something already declared) , but clearly there is plenty to disprove(these declarations of the scriptures)....and just who are YOU suggesting disprove their statements....the UNBELIEVER? NO...., BUT YOU WANT the believer to produce evidence that disproves their own faith. Can you spell fool? Slowly F....O....O...L This I do know, I for one will not attempt to validate your belief in Darwinism, for indeed it is an unproven crock of subjective speculative theory....PRESENTED AS FACTUAL information upon the gullible. If you want to REASON about the content of the scriptures, we shall proceed, but this circular stream of illogical charges stops here, as I will not address any more foolish posts. If you want to declare the scriptures as fables, I would suggest that YOU go about proving your charges. Only Ali could "rope a dope" with any success. (RD)
Okay i'm gonna make this simple for you, i'm gonna make a list, if you disagree with any item on the list you let me know and then explain why you disagree, hopeful this will clear up the mis-communication.
1. The burden of proof lies on those who make a positive claim
2. The negative claim does not nor ever have the burden of proof.
3. The burden of proof does not move.
4. Stating the something is ______, is a positive claim
5. The person with the burden of proof must provide evidence to support their position.
6. The person making a positive claim has the burden of proof.
7. Stating that something is NOT ______, is a negative claim.
8. Someone does not have to be lying in order to be wrong.
9. You can say something that is wrong without being a liar.
10. Accusing someone of being wrong, does not require accusations of lying, for the reason listed above.
11. Stating "snakes do not talk" is a negative claim.
12. A statement containing the following words is a positive claim:
" will, can, has, was, did, forever, is + adjective "
13. A statement containing the following words is a negative claim:
" won't, can't, not, hasn't, wasn't, didn't, never, isn't +adjective "
14. A double negative is a positive. A claim with a double negative is a positive claim
15. A double positive is a positive. A claim with a double positive is a positive claim.
Okay i'm gonna make this simple for you, i'm gonna make a list, if you disagree with any item on the list you let me know and then explain why you disagree, hopeful this will clear up the mis-communication.
1. The burden of proof lies on those who make a positive claim
2. The negative claim does not nor ever have the burden of proof.
3. The burden of proof does not move.
4. Stating the something is ______, is a positive claim
5. The person with the burden of proof must provide evidence to support their position.
6. The person making a positive claim has the burden of proof.
7. Stating that something is NOT ______, is a negative claim.
8. Someone does not have to be lying in order to be wrong.
9. You can say something that is wrong without being a liar.
10. Accusing someone of being wrong, does not require accusations of lying, for the reason listed above.
11. Stating "snakes do not talk" is a negative claim.
12. A statement containing the following words is a positive claim:
" will, can, has, was, did, forever, is + adjective "
13. A statement containing the following words is a negative claim:
" won't, can't, not, hasn't, wasn't, didn't, never, isn't +adjective "
14. A double negative is a positive. A claim with a double negative is a positive claim
15. A double positive is a positive. A claim with a double positive is a positive claim.
Just like the theory of Radio Carbon dating...your entire list is invalidated by a subjective idea and assumption in the very first point you are assuming, in your case that the burden of proof lies as the responsibility of a third party....or a straw person, that simply reads the position of a declared and sworn truth presented by another. Since the originator of the statement has made a sworn TESTAMENT to the validity of what is professed and is not in any position to defend themselves than other with their sworn statement.....the burden of proof therefore is not on the straw party that believes the sworn testament, but upon the one declaring that this statement is untrue. For indeed, just like you, WHAT I BELIEVE DOES NOT MATTER....I did not make the statements, I simply agree with them...no matter what your SUBJECTIVE opinion may be, what I believe or do not believe does not effect the statements nor will it change what has been sworn to...BY ANOTHER. You are presenting a straw argument in the demand of wanting another to validate YOUR UNBELIEF and prove you wrong....when it is you that are making the accusations of these testaments being false. In the position of a faithful believer all the evidence that can be presented are these words....just as I have done. Thus, simply because I present the words of another and accept their validity does not shift the burden of proving them to be true, simply because it does not matter nor effect WHAT I believe one way or another. The problem of proving them lies is therefore yours, for that is the ONLY WAY that you can effect the faith of another......PROVE THEIR BELIEF TO BE WRONG, IF YOU CAN NOT, WHAT DOES IT MATTER WHAT YOU BELIEVE OR DO NOT BELIEVE, for I am commanded to work out MY SALVATION...not yours. I can present to you the sworn testament of another that declares that it is truth....but I can not nor will not accept the responsibility for YOUR LACK OF FAITH and further inability to prove what you espouse in the way of these statements being lies. Simple, clear, precise and LOGICAL...BUT MOST IMPORTANT, proven by legal precedent to be as such. YOUR ad-nauseam demands of continuing to present your foolishness does not invalidate the statements of the testaments...the only thing that will do as much is PROOF, not subjective opinion nor parroted debate tactics of misdirection. As I said, the tail being chased is yours not mine, for I refuse to play by your rules of arrogantly DEMANDING to establish the facts of WHAT "I" must and must not accept. (R)
The problem with debating fundamentalists is that you must teach them the laws of logic....
in this, my frustration is mounting. Talking to Red Devil is like talking to a wall. He clings to his presumptions and refuses to support them.
he has not the slightest clue of how the burden of proof works. I try to teach im but he simply denies all of it.
The logic or lack thereof is indeed shown in your position as a fool. You accuse the scriptures of lying,
back up your words with nothing but a wit that is lacking in the required steam of logic in the attempt to have people chase their proverbial tails in the attempt of your demanded requirements of proof.
Again, nothing needs to be proven,
as those that have drafted the testaments have ceased from their physical existence leaving us only with their sworn testaments of eye witness accounts of such as is written about.
The only way for ANYONE to discredit the statements of the deceased is to disprove them...
not inversely by having a STRAW PARTY prove what they have NOT WITNESSED but accepted on the face value of sworn testament.
As I said, what is needed for your position to become valid is the fact of disproving these statements, for indeed I can no more prove what I have NOT WITNESSED than you can disprove what you have NOT WITNESSED.
And simply because someone will not deploy their intellect in your desired direction is assumed to constitute stubbornness on the part of a THIRD PARTY?
Your mission should you decide to accept it would be to disprove what you declare to be untrue....if you CAN NOT, then what is everyone to believe....your lack of proof, or the scriptures declarations?
As spoken if you want to reason on any subject mentioned in the scriptures, proceed, if not, you will have to do your own leg work of providing evidence to disprove the eyewitness accounts of those that have sworn as much,
Amusing.....is it not, as you have spent countless time in trying to present a false format of inverted jurisprudence upon the faithful, when if you had any proof....you most certainly would be about presenting such instead of crying and whining because someone will not play by your secular rules of engagement
which are clearly titled to favor the secular position of NOT HAVING TO PRESENT ANYTHING OTHER THAN SPECULATIVE OPINION
But what I have noticed and I assume what others have noticed as well is the fact that everything that you have presented has been debunked by what the scriptures ACTUALLY DECLARE....
indeed it is hard to match wits with the Holy Spirit,
Okay i'm gonna make this simple for you, i'm gonna make a list, if you disagree with any item on the list you let me know and then explain why you disagree, hopeful this will clear up the mis-communication.
1. The burden of proof lies on those who make a positive claim
2. The negative claim does not nor ever have the burden of proof.
3. The burden of proof does not move.
4. Stating the something is ______, is a positive claim
5. The person with the burden of proof must provide evidence to support their position.
6. The person making a positive claim has the burden of proof.
7. Stating that something is NOT ______, is a negative claim.
8. Someone does not have to be lying in order to be wrong.
9. You can say something that is wrong without being a liar.
10. Accusing someone of being wrong, does not require accusations of lying, for the reason listed above.
11. Stating "snakes do not talk" is a negative claim.
12. A statement containing the following words is a positive claim:
" will, can, has, was, did, forever, is + adjective "
13. A statement containing the following words is a negative claim:
" won't, can't, not, hasn't, wasn't, didn't, never, isn't +adjective "
14. A double negative is a positive. A claim with a double negative is a positive claim
15. A double positive is a positive. A claim with a double positive is a positive claim.
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[SIZE="4"]What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence![/SIZE]
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But you continually IGNORE the evidence that is presented, such as the written testaments of eye witness accounts, the burden of proof is upon the accuser to dismiss this evidence as non factual. There is no DOGMA (a religious doctrine that is professed as truth without proof), as the proof given is the recorded word of eyewitness accounts....self professed as evidence. "For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were EYEWITNESSES of his majesty." 11 Peter 1:16. "And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God: and that believing ye might have life through his name." -- John 20:30-31.
This is evidence any way you choose to spin your position. These are not MY WORDS (acting as a straw agent), but the words of an eyewitness account. Proof in any court room in America, UNLESS debunked as false it must stand as stated. Just as proven in our secular court system when the scriptures have been challenged before. {The Lawsuit against the Bible by Harry Rimmer} published by W.B. Eerdmans Publishing Co., Grand Rapids Michigan. (RD)
