Question re: Gods Divine Plan

It's a good question, and answering it leads to the question of whether we can have truly free will if God is omniscient and omnipotent.

Many people do pray that God's will be done, which is rather pointless if it cannot be otherwise. But the Bible says that God answers all prayers, and some people pray for specific things in hopes that God will alter his Plan.

Pray: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessed unworthy. Ambrose Bierce

It has been explained to me, that while God has a plan, and knows all, he doesn't make decisions for us (he knows the decisions which we will make), and lets us make them, be they what he would want for us or not.
When we pray (me, my family, my friends), we pray for each other, and yes, sometimes specifics, but we INCLUDE, "lord, i REAAAALLLLY WANT BLAH BLAH BLAH, but Your will be done in my life" for believers (which I am), we know that God's plan is best for our lives, but sometimes we make decisions on our own, that are not his plan for us, but that he already knows we will make.
It certainly was not God's Plan for David to screw w/ another man's wife then have that man killed, but David made that decision and paid for it. I like to think of it as God's Plan being a smoothly, newly paved Black Tar road, and my bad decisions that I make as pot holes (believe me, lol some are) and speed bumps, and my good decisions as mile markers (you've gone this far, and you're doing good girl).

I'm not trying to be rude but the best way for you to answer that question is to open up your heart and mind to our Lord and read His living word, The Bible, and I guarantee your question will be answered one day.

Have a good day.

Know in your heart that the prayer you are asking for will be answered -- know this even at the moment you ask. Believe with all your heart that God has already answered your prayer even before you finish praying.
Prayer is related to purity of heart. Our Lord went to the cross for one purpose, to take away our sins so that we could stand chaste before God.
Prayer brings us closer to God and determining what his will is for us. To sit and pray for a new car might never get answered because it might not be in Gods will for you. God is our Father. He will only give us what is good. And as prayer should be a continuous motion we come closer to worshipping God.

Confession and repentance is stressed in scripture so heavily in relation to prayer and the atonement that surrounds it. People who do not pray -- people who do not believe in prayer -- are convinced that they can do everything themselves. They surrender nothing. They have no faith.

Why does God want us to pray? Because we don't know what is good for us. Sometimes we might want something that God knows will harm us. So he wants us to pray for his will in our lives. Praying in the name of Jesus and thanking God.

So his plan is to let the arseholes of the world get rich off the sweat of others? Yeah, great plan!

The arseholes will manage that on their own, Wil.


While God may have promised to answer all prayers, He'd never be foolish enough to say His reply would always be yes. Sometimes His answer might be no, wait, or even "whatever". teehee

monger laughs, but he's right

CEOs are proof that god has no plan.

Let's not forget the leaders of nations!!!

I recommend that people pray because it's good for their heads and their hearts. Most people do it wrong. They wait till they're a little desperate for something to happen and are all tensed up. Or they stand in the middle of a church crowd, whooping it up and amening and waving their hands, that's not prayer, that's worship.

Prayer ought to be, IMO, a quiet, daily activity of concentration.

Beginners ought to start with five minutes of it and in today's world, five minutes is a lot. But try this: Sit or kneel or stand, your choice, and let everything else in your life fall away from your consciousness. Relax your mind, slow down your heart, (see? that's the good part for them.) and focus on praying. There doesn't even have to be words spoken aloud, so anyone can do this anywhere. Even in the middle of Pennsylvania Station at rush hour, even in the middle of that church crowd, let all that drift away and pray.

Think first about what is right with your life: your love, your health, your children, the home you have. Don't drift off and start musing, there's work ahead. If some thought starts to distract you, tell it to wait a sec, you want to pray about something else. Then think about how or what you would want to be different and pray about that.

By that I don't mean "oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz", by praying I mean that you should see the world as you want it to be. (The child is cured and well. Your job situation is improved and you are confident and secure. You see yourself as a non-smoker and it feels right.) and concentrate on that vision, see it whole and pray that it comes to be. think on the words 'Let it be.'

Sometimes they mean 'be here' sometimes they mean 'be gone'.

Then, before you offer thanks, try to remember that thought that was distracting you. If you remember, pray on that for awhile, maybe your brain or your heart was trying to tell you something.

Take a deep breath. Exhale, and as you do, give thanks for the life you have now. (This is a particularly wrenching experience for those who are in deep pain over something in their lives, but it's important.) Inhale, hey, this is sounding like yoga or something, .....well......

..exhale, and start your new life.

When you get good at this you can do it for a half-hour solid.

Joe

I meditate, but don't pray, so it seems on some level, Joe and I are on the same wavelength, in the sense that it's not the deity, but how one performs the act that matters.

Frankly, the ideas that "God has a predetermined master plan" & "God gives us free will" don't mix well at all.

If I believed in God and had a choice between the two alternatives, I'd take that 2nd one.

Monger, I would have to agree. I think it comes down to over-explaining and anthropomorphising by humans to explain away the pain of their sad lives.

Let's take a model: Assume god exists. Assume that we are made in god's image. Doesn't that make an ass out of you and me?

I was gonna be serious, but I couldn't resist.

Spoken like a true devoté of Eris . . . supposing for the sake of argument that there were a deity (the only basis for such a foolish supposition would be argumentative), said deity must find the mental gymnastics of the faithful truly hilarious. There is a wonderfully limitless capacity of humans to hold contradictory beliefs harmoniously in mind. Predestination and free will are two of the most extreme, and ridiculous examples of the ability.

It seems many people equate prayer with a wish list presented to God, but that's not what it was meant to be. Consider the "Lord's Prayer"--the "give us this day" part isn't exactly the main focus of the prayer. Prayer should consist of worship, praise, thanksgiving, repentance, . . . As far as our requests go, the Bible indicates that God already knows our needs, and the Holy Spirit intercedes for us with a depth that we cannot imagine.
Christians believe in a personal relationship with God--how can there be a relationship with no communication? It is impossible to draw close to someone without having times where you focus exclusively on that person and their interests. That is the key advantage to prayer--it represents communion with God, not a "letter to Santa Claus".

It seems to me that both Joe's recommendation and Cav's response to it are what I learned to do when I studied Eastern Philosophy and Religion.

To quiet the mind; to be alone with one thought; to bring it back into focus when it tries to stray; to attempt to manifest that which one wants to happen...all of this and more are of great assistance in daily life.

I just can't get behind any type of organized religion; I know this is trite, but the lush cathedrals among the poor have always galled me.

As human beings, we are all searching, but we can do it through a daily meditation and also come together in community. I just see no necessity for a 'professional' teacher leading a flock in a 'praying edifice'; I doubt that will ever lead us to what we are truly seeking.

But, then again, that's just me. :wink:

It seems to me that we've got to move beyond this religion nonsense -- and concentrate on "doing it ourselves."

And that holds whether or not there is a God or are gods.

If you really have to pray to your god -- the only prayer that should be offered is something along the lines of:

God, go do whatever else it is you've gotta do -- and leave this place and our lives to us. We'll take care of it. And if we screw up to the point where we annihilate ourselves and everything else that lives....just start all over again.

P.S. God, if it does come to that, two things you might want to consider:

One, you really ought to rethink a lot of the original plan before retooling.

Two, glad we could be of help by teaching you with our mistakes.

God works in mysterious ways, Frank. If there is a Master plan I supose that would mean it's being carried out flawlessly.

Or maybe, rather, everyone's ultimate outcome has been predestined but we must find our own ways to it - though all roads lead to Rome, so to speak.

(Damn, mental gymnastics are indeed tricky, and the balance beam is awfully fragile. . .)

I presume Setanta understands that we Erisians seldom pray to our madcap mistress, as it's much too dangerous. There've been those who prayed fervently to end a drought, only to have their entire village wiped out in a torrential flood.