The New Crusades

@Fatal Freedoms,

Fatal_Freedoms;53113 wrote:

C'mon guys, seriously! You know you can't beat Sabz in a debate, it's physically and logically impossible!

One can only hope that one day he will be so enlightened.

0 Replies

@Fatal Freedoms,

Fatal_Freedoms;53051 wrote:

Why are you talking about wisconsin?

Aren't you Great Lakes knuckleheads all the same? Very Happy

2 Replies

@Pinochet73,

I say crush nuts. Crush'm hard. Stop the dick-dance, and let the fur fly. :headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang:

[SIZE="5"]BUST FRIG'N BALLS. [/SIZE]

0 Replies

@Pinochet73,

Pinochet73;53151 wrote:

Aren't you Great Lakes knuckleheads all the same?

to the same degree all southern-westerners are the same.

0 Replies

@Reagaknight,

I imagine we're aiming at two separate things in this discussion and both saying the other is missing the target.

My argument of the Muslims being technologically ahead of the "Crusaders" was based on that geographical region being helped along by a certain structure, the Library of Alexandria. The Library did not specifically help one group of people, and I never said it did. If I was misunderstood, I apologize.

Anyway, the effects of the Library carried on long after its destruction. Things which could be handed down were kept and improved upon. Forging metals and construction, for example, are things that were taught the exact same way they are today... from master to apprentice. If the Library's influence introduced or improved upon these basics, they would be integrated and be retained long after the destruction. Things such as the Antikythera mechanism, which would have required blueprints of some sort, would have been lost without a trace.

The Muslims lived in that area, so it's safe to say they had their hands on things made using these "improvements". Weapons and armor, all things improved upon by better knowledge of forging and handling metals, are things they could have made and used.

Directly, the Library did nothing for the Muslims. Indirectly however, it affected the entire region even centuries after it's loss.

And no, it's not logically impossible for me to lose a debate. If I see that I am clearly wrong, I will bow out. I am not perfect Smile

0 Replies

@Pinochet73,

Quote:

Anyway, the effects of the Library carried on long after its destruction. Things which could be handed down were kept and improved upon. Forging metals and construction, for example, are things that were taught the exact same way they are today... from master to apprentice. If the Library's influence introduced or improved upon these basics, they would be integrated and be retained long after the destruction. Things such as the Antikythera mechanism, which would have required blueprints of some sort, would have been lost without a trace.

Okay. But that can only go so far, which is not really far at all. The Crusaders' swords were quite funcional, it seems. At least they won their share of battles even when they were physically disadvantaged most of the time.

Quote:

The Muslims lived in that area, so it's safe to say they had their hands on things made using these "improvements". Weapons and armor, all things improved upon by better knowledge of forging and handling metals, are things they could have made and used.

Well, besides the fact that a lot of this seems speculative, if that is the case then it is just as likely that the Christian world benefited in the same, if not a more direct, way than the Muslim world; they might actually have controlled the Library. For example, Greek fire.

1 Reply

@Reagaknight,

Reagaknight;53195 wrote:

Okay. But that can only go so far, which is not really far at all. The Crusaders' swords were quite funcional, it seems. At least they won their share of battles even when they were physically disadvantaged most of the time.

If a sword were made using a better technique, it would last longer. Nothing sucks more than having your sword break in the middle of battle. Armor of course would be stronger.

Quote:

Well, besides the fact that a lot of this seems speculative, if that is the case then it is just as likely that the Christian world benefited in the same, if not a more direct, way than the Muslim world; they might actually have controlled the Library. For example, Greek fire.

Greek fire was invented in 670.

Historian James Partington thinks it likely that "Greek fire was really invented by the chemists in Constantinople who had inherited the discoveries of the Alexandrian chemical school"

Greek fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It in itself would be an indirect advancement as well.

0 Replies

@Pinochet73,

Quote:

Armor of course would be stronger.

Too bad armor wasn't in vogue in the arid and dry Muslim world. In fact, roast Crusader was somewhat of a delicacy, due to the armor.

Again, speculative. You're even using 'if' and etc. Without direct evidence, your arguments have no real standing exept as theories.

Quote:

Greek fire was invented in 670.

Historian James Partington thinks it likely that "Greek fire was really invented by the chemists in Constantinople who had inherited the discoveries of the Alexandrian chemical school"

Greek fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It in itself would be an indirect advancement as well.

I read the wikipedia article, I was looking for an actual connection of Library/Greek Fire before I posted that. Anyway, sort of evens it out, no?

As far as I'm concerned, Greek fire pwns sword durability.

1 Reply

@Reagaknight,

Reagaknight;53248 wrote:

Too bad armor wasn't in vogue in the arid and dry Muslim world. In fact, roast Crusader was somewhat of a delicacy, due to the armor.

Tasty. I'd imagine something akin to chain mail was the choice out there.

Quote:

Again, speculative. You're even using 'if' and etc. Without direct evidence, your arguments have no real standing exept as theories.

Unfortunately since there's very little record of the Library and it's contents, that's all I will have. It's not that the speculation is wrong, just that all evidence has been erased.

Quote:

I read the wikipedia article, I was looking for an actual connection of Library/Greek Fire before I posted that. Anyway, sort of evens it out, no?

More or less.

Quote:

As far as I'm concerned, Greek fire pwns sword durability.

Greek fire was a great tool against ships, too. All that water and you can't stop the flame.

0 Replies

@Pinochet73,

Pinochet73;52472 wrote:

I call upon Christians everywhere to rally and launch the Crusades, Part II.

Psalm 11

5 The LORD examines the righteous,
but the wicked and those who love violence
his soul hates.

0 Replies

@Pinochet73,

Quote:

Tasty. I'd imagine something akin to chain mail was the choice out there.

I believe many of them wore no armor at all, the rest were sparsely armored. I was all desert, most of the soldiers were slaves. Some of them had armor, but not enough to be of too much use against the Crusaders (Well, the Turks would have more armor, but it would have been much rarer in Egyptian armies.)

Quote:

5 The LORD examines the righteous,
but the wicked and those who love violence
his soul hates.

Alternatively:

5 The LORD examines the righteous,
but the wicked and those who love violence
his soul hates.

Maybe a Crusade would be justifiable and 'righteous.'

0 Replies

The New Crusades

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know