Methods of Prayer

Where I come from "close my eyes and think of England" means something else. Unless you were eluding to this?

But it can do much for the individual can it not?

I am not sure I get this either,
Is it a joke about suppression?

Or does it brutally mean you really believe that you do not need avoid prayer because you really do not feel or avoid an obligation to kill strangers?

This is a wonderful answer, it sounds like a litany, a rosary, a prayer against prayer.
Utterly fascinating.
Please describe further anything prayer related about your self.
What makes you feel more secure the instant of the cuff prayer or the later one?
Do you think you are contented in life?
Do you feel you need forgiveness or absolution when you make this 'mistake'? (not from God, from yourself)
Do you feel it is a mistake?

(I am NOT being sarcastic please expand)

Does your meditation involve any instruction to the self or other wise?
Do you will yourself along or encourage yourself verbally when meditating?
Do you have a check list?
Do you chant?

I also meditate a lot easier than I do pray.

Please give a distinction between meditation and prayer,
please so I know clearer where you sit and pose.
Take me through a general meditation with you if not to personal of me to ask of you.

Thanks

I absolutely agree with the first sentence.

I am confused by the second, please some detail would be welcomed.
Are you saying that the only answers that matter are your own?

Well can you share your method for suppressing the obligation to kill strangers? Perhaps if you share your method of avoiding this, then I can relate my method to yours.

A
R
T

The closest thing you could do to what you call 'prayer' is this:

I will hope that all preceding outcomes lead up to the single outcome in which my desired outcome is a reality via causality.

I might express it as if I'm addressing the cosmos as a sentient entity out loud for the sake of communication, but I feel it deserves the usual atheists disclaimer.

Edit: This does actually have an evolutionary purpose, in that it helps my conscious visualize my goals and thus helps me achieve them. I do not believe that the actual act of hoping itself will change anything.

Bottom line, yes, only my answers matter. That is not to say that I cannot discuss matters with other people and read what experts have found. Then, it is, IMO, my responsibility to draw my own conclusions, and act upon them.

That also does not mean that from time to time I won't draw incorrect conclusions, and act incorrectly. It is my responsibility to learn from my screwups, and use that knowledge to amend my behavior in similar future situations.

Well this I think I get.
Is it saying that I nor you do suppress the need to pray?

That the need or compulsion to pray or kill alike is a learned trait?

That prayer is indeed not a fundamental like I proposed in the first post?

Unless it means something else like prayer is a suppression tactic that keeps people from killing each other?

Or maybe (I doubt this one most) do you think my inability to pray to God is indeed a suppression?

I still have found reason to question your response, am I close with any of these?

Yes an evolutionary purpose I think it is.
Sometimes we don't understand anything inside our own head until we hear it outside of it.
And it is not just so people will be devote and blind in what they say.
Sometimes until we have heard ourselves out loud or someone else say something we don't know how stupid it really is.

Bingo, bango, jingo, jango.

A
R
T

I'm not usually very directly aware of God at all. Even then, like Razzleg, I quite often pray, out of desperation - I'm not implying that Razzleg is often desperate, only that I am! - but then it feels wrong, and very stupid and silly.

When I am aware of God (a relatively new experience for me), I mostly seem to argue, quibble, or try to make bargains with Him. It is a very friendly relationship, but I am aware that He (I'll partially justify the masculine pronoun in a minute) is a dangerous guy to play with.

I am always, of course, aware that whatever I (mis)take to be God is certain to be something like an idol, a projection of myself (onto something which, or rather Someone who, is vastly more than myself), an illusion. That is one very good reason why my prayer (when it is not simply thanks) always seems to take the form of an argument or foolhardy bargain where I don't even know what I am taking on or letting myself in for.

A God you don't feel like arguing with is almost certainly not God. And if you do argue, but God loses, then either it wasn't God after all, or else you've just fooled yourself into missing some important communication, but you'll probably never know which of these two things it was.

This is very different (I wish I could say "of course") from saying that God is a "delusion", in Dawkins's sense. Rather, God is that reality against which any foolish human projection I (mis)take for God must be tested to see if, on the one hand, it is only an illusion, some kind of silly mistake or wish-fulfilment or egoistic indulgence, or whether, on the other hand, it is the best approximation my poor silly little ape-like brain could come up in forming a cartoon-like image of God, and I'd better take it as real. I mean real as a silly human approximation, of course. Nothing more than that, but still an approximation or caricature of something, or rather Someone.

I don't know how to explain any of this, or make it seem sane or sensible (I'm only gradually getting used to this theism nonsense myself), but you asked, and your question seemed genuine, so I answered.

I also liked Razzleg's answer.

there are no letters in the mailbox,
there are no diamonds in the mind.

Peaceful thoughts sent out to others is my prayer.
With my eyes closed and hands in a little pose (sitting/standing/walking/wherever) I see another person's eyes and send them my wishes [but I'm a dreamer, and I won't be offended if y'all think I'm full of bologna].
I rarely force myself to pray.

You see I actually agree that ones own answers are actually all that matters to them selves because they are what designs their life and character and so much more.

But I was also asking what answers are most important to all or even the masses.

My answers may be the most important to and for me, but I cannot make the claim that they are the most important to and for someone else.

Is this what you claim?
That because prayer may be useless or worse bad for you it is also useless for or bad for other people?

I don't mean to doubt your hyperbole as I have found use with it and am known to enjoy the pursuit myself but I already asked you if this is what you meant and to me means the same as my bingo moment.
See if you can tell the difference.
sometime sun quote;
"Or does it brutally mean you really believe that you do not need avoid prayer because you really do not feel or avoid an obligation to kill strangers"
sometime sun quote;
"I nor you suppress the need to pray"
Avoid and suppress are almost the same thing.
And I used 'avoid' as the descriptive word in my theories first post, so you should have had an easier time in understanding me as I was keeping it closer to what you had the disagreement with in the first place.
Do you see?
Or does my own hyperbole bug you so much you felt compelled to make an example of me with your own?
Or perhaps you prefer me to say suppress instead of avoid?

failures art thank you for forcing me to justify myself, this has been good working with you even if all we got from it was "I disagree with what you say".
and some chance to show off.

So now I know you disagree with me could you please tell me why you think prayer is NOT something that has need to be avoided or suppressed, what are Your words that could convince me of this. Please.

(would you mind if I followed you?)
All the best sometime sun

Sure. You may follow me. A2K culturally speaking, usually people don't request permission in advance, so no need for such formality.

Yes. I disagree with you, and was simply having sport with you on the murder bit. I do not pray, and I don't agree that it comes from any sort of suppression.

Since you've requested me to convince you, let's not waste my time and effort. Define what burden I'm to prove for you to be convinced.

A
R
T

If I am not mistaken this is an insult?

If so,
you guys sure enjoy your insults around here
Shame in your case here little else.
I notice you were not even good enough to answer the question,
Not got an answer or just prefer hurtfuls?

Plenty of mail thanks.
But you are right, no diamonds, just questions, which I regard as treasure
just an open searching eager mind.
Without prejudice.
Maybe if you had read this topic with some care you would have also seen the fault I found in your comrades comprehension and you would not have thought so quickly highly of him and so quickly lowly of me?

I still think your hat is cool......

You say not to waste your time or effort, what about mine, or are we unequal?
What are you talking about 'burden'?
Where did I say 'burden'?
In future if you can be bothered with me please quote me so I can see what I need to work from.

Prayer to my mind is not a burden if that is what you think I mean?
Are you saying that I may think prayer alleviates burden?
Do you think I mean to say that those who do not pray have a burden?
Or are you saying this burden is the suppression and or avoidance?
Did I say burden?
But you say you need to prove the burden to me, so this could mean that you think I think those who suppress or avoid are burdened with their suppression and or avoidance?
Is this right?
Do I think suppression or avoidance is a burden?
Not if you either pray or don't pray.
So then I am not asking for your convincing me of your burden I am asking about your convincing me of your freedom in not praying.
I hope this clears it up for you.
It took me a while but I got somewhere with this.

If you think I'm wasting your time and effort , think how I might feel when I have to get to bed soon and still have work to be done, maybe I need to come back fresh tomorrow? yes I think this is what I will have to do.
Truly Sorry for the delay and confusion.
I am easily confused, it is not such a prize.

This may be a compliment or not, but you are a hard nut to crack.
Or very good at dazzling people.
You have or I have got me all confused now.
See you tomorrow,
without prejudice sometime sun.