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Do any religions have any kind of checks and balances

 
 
reasoning logic
 
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Reply Sun 13 Jun, 2010 03:50 pm
@reasoning logic,
I wonder how most of you will respond to this link that I am adding to the end of this post do you agree or disagree? If you disagree would you be kind enough to help me see where they are wrong so that I can see correctly as you do. Thank You. Reasoning Self Logic http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DKhc1pcDFM
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thomas-b
 
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Reply Thu 14 Jul, 2011 07:16 am
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
...was wondering if religions have any kind of checks and balances to make sure that they know what they are teaching is correct?

The honest answer is simply: No, they don't. They have a priesthood or gathering of people who debate holy scriptures. In Catholicism the Pope simply says it's a certain way based on his understanding of holy scripture.
In Protestant branches of Christianity, many churches have different church constitutions and creeds that they have come up with based on their understanding of scripture.
Fil Albuquerque
 
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Reply Thu 14 Jul, 2011 07:53 am
@thomas-b,
The justification for such convenience would probably be that you cannot cage God through human reason...that God is not subjected nor limited to the human rational boundaries and its limited processes...and that faith is the only possible way left to deal with it...of course, to my standing point the direct link or bypass that blind faith represents consists on cheating...true faith comes through knowledge and not by its absence...
maxdancona
 
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Reply Thu 14 Jul, 2011 08:02 am
@thomas-b,
Of course they All religions have checks and balances. Even the heads of religions have pressures on them that inform what they can and can't do.

Consider the pope. He has to worry about the priests and cardinals. He has to worry about his membership leaving, particularly in wealthy western countries. American Catholics put a good deal of pressure on the pope. He is pressured by what is in the press and by politicians these things have great sway over the the papacy and the church at large.

Any religious leadership has to worry about keeping her membership happy. If people leave they are out of a job. Most religions have a oligarchical structure where a group of influential members all have great sway.

Even small churches have to worry about their membership. If people are unhappy, the church will cease to exist. Leaders of small religious groups have to keep this in mind.
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thomas-b
 
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Reply Thu 14 Jul, 2011 08:06 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
I think there is an inner struggle in many religious people. At some point people ask themselves, "Is this a reasonable belief?" Too often they feel like this question is in conflict with the need to believe in any higher power or greater reality. Our religious institutions encourage an all-or-nothing view of their own beliefs. You must believe this. Anything else is wrong.
I think that in the end, we must acknowledge that our personal beliefs are up to us and no one else. I encourage people to keep looking for beliefs that they judge to be reasonable. I have found much satisfaction and personal meaning in my own faith journey and am comforted by the possibility that not only this world, but the world beyond, has a very sensible intelligence behind it.
maxdancona
 
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Reply Thu 14 Jul, 2011 08:17 am
@thomas-b,
Thomas, there is an inherent contradiction in what you are saying.

Quote:
Our religious institutions encourage an all-or-nothing view of their own beliefs. You must believe this. Anything else is wrong.


Quote:
I think that in the end, we must acknowledge that our personal beliefs are up to us and no one else.


What if someone's sincere personal belief is that there is one God and that the pope is his spokesman on Earth. What if I believe that God wants us to be part of His Holy Catholic church.

Are you saying that I must not believe this?
thomas-b
 
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Reply Thu 14 Jul, 2011 09:39 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
What if someone's sincere personal belief is that there is one God and that the pope is his spokesman on Earth. What if I believe that God wants us to be part of His Holy Catholic church.
Are you saying that I must not believe this?

No. But first, let me clarify something. I should have phrased the following statement a little differently:
Quote:
Our religious institutions encourage an all-or-nothing view of their own beliefs. You must believe this. Anything else is wrong.

It should have read like this:
Quote:
Our religious institutions encourage an all-or-nothing view of their own beliefs. They tell us, "You must believe this. Anything else is wrong."

My point is that every person on earth has control over their minds. Every person has individual power to consider their beliefs. They can even choose to surrender that authority to the Pope. Or they can look outside of organized religion. But I am fairly certain that even good Catholics all have a voice inside their head that evaluates statements that are given to them, even by the Pope. And sometimes, they pass their own verdict on the Popes statements...such as the church's views on birth control. Any Catholic can say to themselves, "I disagree with the Pope on this." The Church may not like this. It may tell it's members that such thoughts put them in danger of hellfire...but it's going to happen.
I think that seeking answers is a process of hearing an idea, evaluating it's merit, and some experimentation on our part. We are given free will so that we can experience life, try to better ourselves, and we can "try on" any beliefs we want to. It's how life IS, whether our religious institutions say it is or not.
I do not think it is wrong to be Catholic. If that is the religion of your choice, I hope it is fulfilling to you. But your faith is never going to be completely "perfect" to the Pope or the Catholic Church or whatever religious institution you join. They can only offer you their ideas on belief. Your mind will always make the final choice on WHAT you believe.
And in my own belief, I think we'll all get to the truth in time, over many lifetimes.
thomas-b
 
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Reply Thu 14 Jul, 2011 09:47 pm
@maxdancona,
Sorry about that phrasing. I think I wasn't making my point very clearly.
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Fido
 
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Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2011 07:40 am
@thomas-b,
No person can have more freedom than they can conceive of having, and since we get our religions from our parents, and usually reject them with our parents we really only have limited freedom of thought, and so, of action... I hate the Catholic Church, but it is my Church, the church of power and hate.. And I promise I will leave my church when I find a better one with I already know will be never... They are all the same... They expect as a matter of course to crush freedom, and direct thought... I cannot deny what I am, or the fact that to know any freedom leaves me outside looking in...
reasoning logic
 
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Reply Tue 19 Jul, 2011 04:47 pm
@Fido,
Quote:
They expect as a matter of course to crush freedom, and direct thought... I cannot deny what I am, or the fact that to know any freedom leaves me outside looking in...


Why would you consider this your church if you hate the practices that which they engage in?
Fido
 
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Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 08:33 am
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

Quote:
They expect as a matter of course to crush freedom, and direct thought... I cannot deny what I am, or the fact that to know any freedom leaves me outside looking in...


Why would you consider this your church if you hate the practices that which they engage in?
The answer is easy... I have been introduced to their mysteries through my mother who is devout... I, with her have prayed for miracles and do not know that the effect of doing so did not effect a miracle in my own life and who could do so without being touched???... Through them I was introduced to a practice of spirituality far older than the church or any of us, and not from a distance, but personally, and when this all occured I was an infant in age and size seeing sights that would not make sense except as what they were until long after... So; they gave me an education, and as one of my schoolmates said: They; meaning the church, gave me a good education and a bad attitude... I have seen people with no better educations than myself become more devout than devout... What they did to me I can neither forgive them for nor blame them... But what they are and what they do, and for the class they represent which has always been their class, the ruling class, I Find Offensive...

Besides all this; that is my mother, my holy mother church, my alma mater, my soul mother... No matter how far any of us should stray; she keeps a light on in the window... Ultimately, I know that a church is just people, and not only the people at the top trying to run the juggernaut into hell... And those people are not worse nor better than any other people inside of church or out... Mea culpa...
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