God only exists because.......

@Twistedgypsychil,

Hi,

I guess it is a matter of how you think of God.

Spinoza and Einstein felt that God revealed itself in the Universe, so God exists because the universe exists and Spinoza and Einstein are part of the Universe. So it is a single unity. One is the other. My thinking is along the same lines.

Rich

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@Twistedgypsychil,

Twistedgypsychil;89941 wrote:

Does God only exist because humans give it a thought? What if humans didn't give "god" a thought... would god still exist? Without the "thought" can god exist?

Jamie

I don't quite understand what you are saying. Are you saying that God exists because people thought of God? If so, would you say that mermaids exist because people thought of mermaids? There are no mermaids although people thought of mermaids.

Maybe you are saying that the concept of God exists because people thought of the concept. Well, of course that is true, just as the concept of mermaid exists because people thought of the concept of mermaid. But don't you have to distinguish carefully between the concept of something, and that something (if it exists). Just because we have a concept of something, that does not mean the something exists. So, concepts exist because people think them up. But that is not true about what the concept are concepts of.

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@Twistedgypsychil,

Without the thought of it, the whole concept of "god" would exist no more than a tree falling in the forest, unheard of and unseen.

1 Reply

@Serena phil,

Serena;89951 wrote:

Without the thought of it, the whole concept of "god" would exist no more than a tree falling in the forest, unheard of and unseen.

Well, of course, the concept of God would not exist without thinking about God, for how could we think about God without the concept of God. But that has nothing to do with whether God exists or not.

1 Reply

@Twistedgypsychil,

It is clear that humans have a conception of God and of divine action and that religon is a nearly constant feature of human culture and society.

The question is: is god an "actuality" which influences or changes the natural world?

It is clear the conception of God changes human history. Western civiliazation of the last 2000 years is not separable from the history of the Christian Church.

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@kennethamy,

kennethamy;90038 wrote:

Well, of course, the concept of God would not exist without thinking about God, for how could we think about God without the concept of God. But that has nothing to do with whether God exists or not.

Yes it does, without the conceptual thought of God's existence, he may cease to exist to one who is unaware of God's whole concept. Something can be non-existent through ignorance, but that does not necessarily mean total non-existence.

2 Replies

@kennethamy,

kennethamy;89945 wrote:

I don't quite understand what you are saying. Are you saying that God exists because people thought of God? If so, would you say that mermaids exist because people thought of mermaids? There are no mermaids although people thought of mermaids.

Maybe you are saying that the concept of God exists because people thought of the concept. Well, of course that is true, just as the concept of mermaid exists because people thought of the concept of mermaid. But don't you have to distinguish carefully between the concept of something, and that something (if it exists). Just because we have a concept of something, that does not mean the something exists. So, concepts exist because people think them up. But that is not true about what the concept are concepts of.

I would say this is correct. Thank you for making it more clear to me. This is what I was trying to convey.

Jamie

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@Twistedgypsychil,

brings one back to the quesiton of what does it mean to "exist"
What is reality?
What is the difference between imagination and reality?
Are mermaids even a possiblity much less an actuality or just an imaginative concept?

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@Serena phil,

Serena;90045 wrote:

Yes it does, without the conceptual thought of God's existence, he may cease to exist to one who is unaware of God's whole concept. Something can be non-existent through ignorance, but that does not necessarily mean total non-existence.

Oh, interesting idea. I've been conflicted about these things since becoming acquainted with the Svaneti region of Sakartvelo (Republic of Georgia). It's been relatively isolated in the high Caucasus Mountains for centuries, millenia in fact, and the region has a living, very real ChristoPaganism, complete with nature spirits and pagan deities and such. Many travelers to that region come back convinced something "ineffable" lives in the mountains, snows, rivers, streams, forests, etc., of that place, perhaps because the inhabitants have believed in these spirits and deities for so long.

While the young people there must, of course, take advantage of new opportunities to move to the cities and lowlands (since Svaneti has little to offer them other than subsistence farming), you can't help but FEEL a little sadness that "special beings" who have lived in Svaneti, alongside and because of the people there, for millenia, are somehow "dying", kind of like "Puff the Magic Dragon" (I hate that song -- it's the "Old Yeller" of children's songs).

Sounds like fantasy or an overactive imagination, I realize, but your idea may help me understand, conceptualize and describe this a little better. Thanks.

rebecca

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@Twistedgypsychil,

Twistedgypsychil;89941 wrote:

Does God only exist because humans give it a thought? What if humans didn't give "god" a thought... would god still exist? Without the "thought" can god exist?

Jamie

Assuming that God does exist, he would exist whether humans gave him any thought or not. That is objective existence, independent of human thought.

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@kennethamy,

kennethamy;89945 wrote:

I don't quite understand what you are saying. Are you saying that God exists because people thought of God? If so, would you say that mermaids exist because people thought of mermaids? There are no mermaids although people thought of mermaids.

Maybe you are saying that the concept of God exists because people thought of the concept. Well, of course that is true, just as the concept of mermaid exists because people thought of the concept of mermaid. But don't you have to distinguish carefully between the concept of something, and that something (if it exists). Just because we have a concept of something, that does not mean the something exists. So, concepts exist because people think them up. But that is not true about what the concept are concepts of.

I like this thought! What is true about the concept of concepts?

Also what is more important? Peace and happiness for Humankind or truth?

0 Replies

@Serena phil,

Serena;90045 wrote:

Yes it does, without the conceptual thought of God's existence, he may cease to exist to one who is unaware of God's whole concept. Something can be non-existent through ignorance, but that does not necessarily mean total non-existence.

Why should the concept of God be necessary for the existence of God? The concept of microbes was not necessary for the existence of microbes in the Middle Ages. There were microbes in the Middle Ages, but no one had any concept of them.

---------- Post added 10-17-2009 at 11:47 PM ----------

prothero;91667 wrote:

brings one back to the quesiton of what does it mean to "exist"
What is reality?
What is the difference between imagination and reality?
Are mermaids even a possiblity much less an actuality or just an imaginative concept?

Mermaids are not a concept at all. But the concept of mermaids is certainly a concept.

1 Reply

@kennethamy,

We ARE god's thoughts.
We are the residual data unaccounted for(green No.03) that allows god to maintain a constant state of being.Without this,god would instantaneously transcend to whatever plane of understanding a being of that magnitude has earned,then we would no longer be needed.You dont really believe god is aware of it's own fallacy do you?Checks and balance,it is a *****.

We are encased inside a body that is easily recognized and therefore distinguished between levels of understanding(from a higher authoritative figure mind you) to serve but one purpose,and of course that purpose is to regulate how much development this plane's architect has over the"blueprints"of(insert the word you use to describe EVERYTHING here).
But down feel down,you too one day will get to experience the insanity of becoming a god.

1 Reply

@manfred,

manfred;98409 wrote:

We ARE god's thoughts.
We are the residual data unaccounted for(green No.03) that allows god to maintain a constant state of being.Without this,god would instantaneously transcend to whatever plane of understanding a being of that magnitude has earned,then we would no longer be needed.You dont really believe god is aware of it's own fallacy do you?Checks and balance,it is a *****.

We are encased inside a body that is easily recognized and therefore distinguished between levels of understanding(from a higher authoritative figure mind you) to serve but one purpose,and of course that purpose is to regulate how much development this plane's architect has over the"blueprints"of(insert the word you use to describe EVERYTHING here).
But down feel down,you too one day will get to experience the insanity of becoming a god.

HA awsome! You should write music.

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