The philosophical conception of god in the age of reason and science.

@Squeakybro,

No you're not!
But you are hardly going to take kindly to the fact that you are likely to have invested your life in a Ponzi scheme.
Dream on by all means !

1 Reply

@fresco,

1 - Do you have nothing better to do or say then pick at his grammatical skills ?
Sheesh this forum is gone...

2 - Replacing his bull for your bull doesn't make it sound any better...

All "yous" exist, and they all are going somewhere while they exist.

For someone who spends a great deal of time speaking about the nonsense of truth your sentences are always full of claims...

...I would expect someone like you to accept all points of view as valid no matter how far fetched...

PS - ...and let me just clarify this Fresco its not you or your Philosophy that annoys me...I don't agree with it but I gladly would pass through without replying, I am not a stalker...its the INCONSISTENCY of your stance, the distinction between speech n practice that is ultimately insulting to any reasonable mind.

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

Ah! The aspiring Portuguese matador !
But I realize that as a non-native speaker you have not followed the nuances of this exchange from his first challenge to me a couple of pages ago, so I'll excuse you this time. Smile

1 Reply

@fresco,

Cheap, cheap, low, low... keep at it...you make my point easier to grasp by other occasional readers !

...my post was clear enough regarding the contradictions you fall into. I wouldn't be a honest frontal person if I didn't point them out. Your case as a poster on A2K, unfortunately for you, its self evident...its glaring !

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

Quote:

you make my point easier to grasp by other occasional readers

Nah...you are digging just for two cents worth here, because you get so few responses elsewhere!
You know very well that are not an occasional reader, and some of us who have known your mathematical mysticism over the years are still waiting for you to make a coherent point so we can take you permanently off "ignore".

1 Reply

@fresco,

Mathematical mysticism, eh ? And I here thinking mysticism n Buddha's were your experty department...just look at your signature and compare with it mine...speaking about mysticism its quite entertaining you brought that up.
By the way mine is my own doing while some charades in pseudo philosophical obscurantism are not even yours for making a signature...you haven't got an original or coherent thought in your entire life and are dead boring repetitive in your replies. Its just like a religion isn't it Fresco ?...someone who fights reason trying to reasoning his arguments through it isn't worth even debating. Simply put you are a lost case period.
Keep having fun talking to religious nuts n kiddos....later, I am out ! Wink

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@fresco,

lolo I have seen hundreds of miracles during my Christian walk. That I never did see before it.

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@prothero,

I don't think we're faced with a binary choice here. Neither has to be right or wrong. Science like language is bounded by man's limited powers. And whilst we may be able to employ reason, we are for the most part 'irrational' beings - and not always in a bad way. The irrational maybe an intuition of something reason will never apprehend.

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@prothero,

Prothero well put! I think you and I should talk. There are a few differences, but you are on the same path of thought concerning the God topic. I think that God is already a strong word that leads to religious meaning, and I also think that some of the attributes are absolutely necessary to use when talking on this subject, but that throws some people back into religious thoughts again. So like you I found answers to how God makes perfect sense in todays modern world and science as well. But, I found these things on my own and tried to take into account that all of recorded history is not just a total made up lie created by kings to keep the farmer and slaves in fear. The God they were talking to is the same God we have today. I dont think our people (humans) were idiots, in fact they were every bit as smart as we are today. If you read some Spinoza perhaps you may have already, the one substance part makes a whole lot of sense. A better question for us to ask is, what would you do if you were God and everything at the same time? Would you let your free thinking beings think for themselves first? Make up their own minds? Or would you let them all move right into your house? I would think that some people would even prefer living away from God given the choice. They would most likely say build me a world and give me use of your powers and I'm good. Others might say I am good living with you. I think these are very good reasons for God to appear missing and yet these ideas are very much in line with some religions I can think of. However, I am not religious and yet this all makes more and more sense when I ask myself why God stays so far away from us, yet I know he is right there. Do you know what I mean? The science in this is that all the science in the universe is just us analyzing the self sustaining universe God put us in, in the first place. Only some scientist actually get this. Others cant wrap their heads around the idea. May the force be with you.

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I am a Christian and have no problems with evolution or science. I believe the bible is not a reference to the study of physics, but rather things spiritual and moral, how we value ourselves and other people. I am aware that other people who call themselves Christians think otherwise, i too find them weird and strange, however we would both definitely agree that as Christians we are not perfect, but strive to be in the spirit of our Lord Jesus. The general English academic meaning of god is male immortality, or for goddess female immortality. I also notice that there is an unrealistic search or belief by a lot of people for a god with magical powers, something you'd see in hollywood movies. The philosophical conception of god in the bible by Lord Jesus is the spirit of the father which literally comes from the spirit of family, father, mother, son and daughter. The spirit of the father is the same spirit as the mother which is 'Family'. Therefore god is family or the spirit of family. If one does not believe in god they do not believe in family or vice-versa. I am definitely not implying that people have to be Christians in order to believe in the spirit of family(but it would help them) The concept of family(or god) is a procreative and survival model that belongs to all living things. If I say Lord Jesus is god, i am actually saying he is 'the true family spirit of humanity' where he loves every human being as his own child like a loving honourable father. If i say 'the spirit of satan' i am actually saying 'the spirit of anti-humanism', the spirit that hates humanity or the spirit that doesn't care about the well being of humans. I know there are a lot of metaphors and fairy tale-like stories about Lord Jesus, but if you can see past those things you're notice the greatest teacher of family philosophy which has helped me in my life. Before i became a Christian I use to wonder what was normal? or are they crazy? Are my thoughts about myself and other people normal? How do we think towards ourselves and other people? other species and the world around us? What is normal human behaviour? Without god (or the family spirit) no life would ever exist. Lord Jesus is the true human family spirit of god.

1 Reply

@Amoh5,

Amoh5 wrote:

I am a Christian and have no problems with evolution or science. I believe the bible is not a reference to the study of physics, but rather things spiritual and moral, how we value ourselves and other people. I am aware that other people who call themselves Christians think otherwise, i too find them weird and strange, however we would both definitely agree that as Christians we are not perfect, but strive to be in the spirit of our Lord Jesus. The general English academic meaning of god is male immortality, or for goddess female immortality. I also notice that there is an unrealistic search or belief by a lot of people for a god with magical powers, something you'd see in hollywood movies. The philosophical conception of god in the bible by Lord Jesus is the spirit of the father which literally comes from the spirit of family, father, mother, son and daughter. The spirit of the father is the same spirit as the mother which is 'Family'. Therefore god is family or the spirit of family. If one does not believe in god they do not believe in family or vice-versa. I am definitely not implying that people have to be Christians in order to believe in the spirit of family(but it would help them) The concept of family(or god) is a procreative and survival model that belongs to all living things. If I say Lord Jesus is god, i am actually saying he is 'the true family spirit of humanity' where he loves every human being as his own child like a loving honourable father. If i say 'the spirit of satan' i am actually saying 'the spirit of anti-humanism', the spirit that hates humanity or the spirit that doesn't care about the well being of humans. I know there are a lot of metaphors and fairy tale-like stories about Lord Jesus, but if you can see past those things you're notice the greatest teacher of family philosophy which has helped me in my life. Before i became a Christian I use to wonder what was normal? or are they crazy? Are my thoughts about myself and other people normal? How do we think towards ourselves and other people? other species and the world around us? What is normal human behaviour? Without god (or the family spirit) no life would ever exist. Lord Jesus is the true human family spirit of god.

Yet I can get the same morality and spiritual fulfillment from believing in Humanity Alone.

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That is an interesting reply North, as we say different strokes for different folks or whatever works for you. But before i became a Christian i could never completely trust people (or humanity alone) especially when it came to defining right and wrong, sane and insane, (especially in this day and age of anti-family extremeism) because people are prone to imperfection, which can drive us mad. We wish everday could be perfect but we know eventually something is going to go wrong, i think it's a natural occurence for all species really not just us. We all have our own ways of coping with this reality, Lord Jesus helps me cope and reminds me of how it is to think and behave like a human being, otherwise i'd probably go bonkers. I think hes a great family teacher, he's not anti-human, not scared, greedy, racist, sexist or perverted. Very honourable indeed. I do find it amazing that a lot of people have a concept of god but are unable to define it properly leaving everyone with the great unknown mystical being, amazing. However, i do think Darwin was a very clever man, putting together the different orders of the species and noticing an evolutionary pattern, he was definitely thinking outside of the square. Its a shame that the Catholic Church condemned Galileo for calling the earth round, it's a somehow similar situation with Darwin. Mind you, i don't like the phrase we came from apes because it assumes we came from something we're not which doesn't make sense. You're either an ape or you're not, which one is it? However, we all like to see substantial proof for all these ideas and assumptions. I enjoyed the documentary The Genetic Journey of Man by Dr Spencer Wells, awesome programme on human migration and evolution. I think the concept of god and science should compliment each other, not conflict with each other.

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Yesterday i was thinking about the science of evolution and thought, if people (grown adults) reject evolution then there is only one other option, magic wands or blinging things into existence without any evolving process which is very unrealistic and immature. It even seems freaky in some ways, you'd think common sense would prevail. Mind you some people are brought up quiet brutally by their parents (or caregivers)which doesn't allow them to think beyond fantasy, i guess i'm just lucky that i can think furtherer, things could have been different. And yes i am a Christian, but i don't take the bible literally or use it as a reference to the study of physics, i only like reading the words of Lord Jesus in the bible and nothing else really, he reminds me how to think and behave like a human being which keeps me sane, especially with life's challenges, imperfections and brutalities. I don't call myself perfect or more superior than any other human being. I'm not trying to convert anyone either, just sharing my views as a Christian. And i agree that a lot of people who or who have called themselves Christians have created a lot of attrocities and fantasies which don't align with the teachings of Lord Jesus, i think they are quite bizzare too. But i think as long as we can maintain our own human sense of sanity and familyhood, there is hope for our specie.

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@prothero,

This is almost entirey wrong as to data and reasoning.

The stupidest part of your post is that appeal to Greek philosophical notions. Aristotle and Plato both opposed those notions based on their Rationial knowledge of God and their knowledge of why Homer and Hesiod and others taught as they did.

This shows
http://people.wku.edu/jan.garrett/pgodscht.htm

Not only that the line of progress is from the Jewish Faith backwards to Greece via the Septuagint and the recognition of the Christian elements in Plato in others.

As to the greek elements validated by Christianity
Intimations of Christianity Among the Ancient Greeks
by Simone Weil

Simone Weil's Apologetic Use of Literature: Her Christological Interpretation of Classic Greek Texts (Oxford Modern Languages and Literature Monographs) 1st Edition
by Marie Cabaud Meaney (Author)

Finally, there is this
Plato and the Christians: Passages from the writings of Plato
by Plato (Author), Adam Fox (Introduction)

NOtice that the great haters of Christianity like Celsus argued sincerely that Jesus had stolen His teaching from Plato.

Augustine

“The utterance of Plato, the most pure and bright in all philosophy, scattering the clouds of error . . .”

“I found that whatever truth I had read [in the Platonists] was [in the writings of Paul] combined with the exaltation of thy grace.”

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@prothero,

If in all things the revelation gives way to the 'latest science' then nothing is certain. I have had enough philosophy to see what you don't see : That there can be NO faith whatsoever in your conception. I am just being, you know, educated and adult

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@prothero,

Evolutionists need 4.6 billion more years to find evidence, to prove their faith, is not in vain. †

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@skippah,

The evolution theory and the gravity theory are poor “by product” theories of a religious belief system at the the end of the day.

As neither theory has DEFINITIVE proof, all an individual can do is HOPE and exercise their FAITH in them just like any other religion.

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@prothero,

Spinoza does a fine work on that.
...as for the "age of Reason", well...we are really prepense to confabulate our current day and age aren't we?

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The philosophical conception of god in the age of reason and science.

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