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A God with Emotion?

 
 
Smiley451
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jul, 2009 10:05 am
@prothero,
prothero;79720 wrote:

In the absence of transcendent values then values become a matter of individual opinion (nihilism) or of social consensus or convention (moral relativism).

For people coming out of the traditional western religious orientation. This would be equivalent to no god at all, a conception of god as a blind impersonal force without moral sensibility and indifferent to human concerns. Roughly the same world view as atheism. ( a universe or god of blind indifference).


To me, this makes perfect sense. If God was all-powerful (which, according to the Bible he is) then why would he/she/it care about what happens to humans? To God, the human race seems like it would mean nothing.
"Life is a successful virus, clinging to a speck of rock, suspended in an endless nothing." -Watchmen
As dark as that sounds, it's also quite true. It seems to me that an all-powerful God could care less about Suzy's dance recidal, Derek's math test, Robert's speech at the convention, Aaron's brother's wedding, or keeping Dabiku's family safe from harm by the R.U.F.

I realize that as humans, we can't understand God. But it just seems odd that we are the most important thing in the universe, if it took little to no effort at all to create us.

I know I can't explain my thoughts very well, but do you see what I'm getting at?
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jul, 2009 10:10 am
@Smiley451,
Smiley451;79793 wrote:

I realize that as humans, we can't understand God. But it just seems odd that we are the most important thing in the universe, if it took little to no effort at all to create us.

I know I can't explain my thoughts very well, but do you see what I'm getting at?

How do you know that we are the only things in the universe?
And god may care about Suzi's maths test and so on, he may not but the important thing is that she must care about it for god to care about it if god can/does care, how do you know that god doesn't care?
Smiley451
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jul, 2009 10:43 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;79795 wrote:
How do you know that we are the only things in the universe?
And god may care about Suzi's maths test and so on, he may not but the important thing is that she must care about it for god to care about it if god can/does care, how do you know that god doesn't care?


I don't believe we're the only things in the universe (life/intelligent life). In the Bible, however, it seems like we're led to believe that humans are the most important thing in the universe to God. I'm wondering why that would be the case, given that God is all powerful.
I don't know whether or not God does or doesn't care about us. I'm simply wondering why he/she/it would care.
Why wouldn't God care? Especially if he/she created us?
prothero
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jul, 2009 06:15 pm
@Smiley451,
[QUOTE=Smiley451;79802]I don't believe we're the only things in the universe (life/intelligent life). In the Bible, however, it seems like we're led to believe that humans are the most important thing in the universe to God. I'm wondering why that would be the case, given that God is all powerful.[/QUOTE]
Smiley451;79802 wrote:

I don't know whether or not God does or doesn't care about us. I'm simply wondering why he/she/it would care.


In the ancient worldview there is little doubt, the earth was thought to be the center of the universe and man was the crown (purpose) of creation. Galileo displaced the earth from the center of the universe and Darwin displaced man from the crown of creation. Religious orthodoxy in the West anyway has been struggling to adapt every since. In addition the Christian triad of creation, fall, redemption and the history of the universe as some kind of cosmic play with a beginning, a middle and an end has been brought into question by our current notions of the immensity of space, the vast times involved in cosmic and biological evolution and the disastrous incidents of mass extinction in the planets history. Overall the traditional or orthodox view is not tenable or compatible with a scientific view of the world. What to do?

Religion or spirituality IMO is intrinsic to the existential angst of being a self reflective, self aware creature that can clearly see its own death coming. Religion always has been, always will be a feature of the human condition and an effort to give meaning and significance to our lives and to support our perceived values and ideals. (Secular humanism or atheism just does not do the job for most of us).
We modify our religious views; we change our interpretation of scripture. In an effort to avoid cognitive dissonance we try to bring our spiritual intuitions into alignment with our scientific view of the world. In the process we try to retain those aspects of our religion which have value or practical utility for us.

Now do not get me wrong, I do not think religion is an entirely human construction. I think religions strive after spiritual truth as science strives after material "truth" and perhaps over time we more closely approximate spiritual truth.
I just do not think the supernatural theism of orthodox teaching is a tenable concept (it is not compatible with a scientific worldview). There may be a God in the universe who acts and who cares. God just does not act by special creation and does not contravene the laws of nature to save the favored few.

The best current concept of God (for me, coming as I do from a scientific education and a Western religious tradition) is the god of process theology (Whitehead, Hartshorne). This is a concept of a god who struggles against the forces of chaos to bring order, complexity, life, experience, aesthetic and moral values into existence. This is god who suffers and takes in all the experience of his creation and who patiently, persistently and loving (with attention to the tender elements) has produced the wondrous universe in which we live. The universe is alive and enchanted to the core. I do not accept the vision of the universe as primarily an inert, lifeless dead machine in which life and mind are accidental chance happenings.

Ultimate reality for me is an emanation of the divine a manifestation of spirit. This is the terminology I would use to describe Christ and the spiritual geniuses of all the enduring great religious traditions.
Lily
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 09:15 am
@SJoseph,
S.Joseph;77655 wrote:

To appease smiley, you would have to first prove a soul, and then prove that it had a scientifically unexplainable effect on emotion. Neither can be done. Science can explain and detect emotions, and even predict them to an extent.

Christianity is NOT science, their beliefs isn't science, it's not even supposed to be science, and I can therefore not see the point of trying to apply science in christian belief
0 Replies
 
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 09:48 am
@Smiley451,
Smiley451;79802 wrote:
I don't believe we're the only things in the universe (life/intelligent life). In the Bible, however, it seems like we're led to believe that humans are the most important thing in the universe to God. I'm wondering why that would be the case, given that God is all powerful.
I don't know whether or not God does or doesn't care about us. I'm simply wondering why he/she/it would care.
Why wouldn't God care? Especially if he/she created us?

Why wouldn't God care? Especially if she/he created us?
0 Replies
 
William
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 11:42 am
@prothero,
prothero;79886 wrote:


In the ancient worldview there is little doubt, the earth was thought to be the center of the universe and man was the crown (purpose) of creation. Galileo displaced the earth from the center of the universe and Darwin displaced man from the crown of creation. Religious orthodoxy in the West anyway has been struggling to adapt every since. In addition the Christian triad of creation, fall, redemption and the history of the universe as some kind of cosmic play with a beginning, a middle and an end has been brought into question by our current notions of the immensity of space, the vast times involved in cosmic and biological evolution and the disastrous incidents of mass extinction in the planets history. Overall the traditional or orthodox view is not tenable or compatible with a scientific view of the world. What to do?

Religion or spirituality IMO is intrinsic to the existential angst of being a self reflective, self aware creature that can clearly see its own death coming. Religion always has been, always will be a feature of the human condition and an effort to give meaning and significance to our lives and to support our perceived values and ideals. (Secular humanism or atheism just does not do the job for most of us).
We modify our religious views; we change our interpretation of scripture. In an effort to avoid cognitive dissonance we try to bring our spiritual intuitions into alignment with our scientific view of the world. In the process we try to retain those aspects of our religion which have value or practical utility for us.

Now do not get me wrong, I do not think religion is an entirely human construction. I think religions strive after spiritual truth as science strives after material "truth" and perhaps over time we more closely approximate spiritual truth.
I just do not think the supernatural theism of orthodox teaching is a tenable concept (it is not compatible with a scientific worldview). There may be a God in the universe who acts and who cares. God just does not act by special creation and does not contravene the laws of nature to save the favored few.

The best current concept of God (for me, coming as I do from a scientific education and a Western religious tradition) is the god of process theology (Whitehead, Hartshorne). This is a concept of a god who struggles against the forces of chaos to bring order, complexity, life, experience, aesthetic and moral values into existence. This is god who suffers and takes in all the experience of his creation and who patiently, persistently and loving (with attention to the tender elements) has produced the wondrous universe in which we live. The universe is alive and enchanted to the core. I do not accept the vision of the universe as primarily an inert, lifeless dead machine in which life and mind are accidental chance happenings.

Ultimate reality for me is an emanation of the divine a manifestation of spirit. This is the terminology I would use to describe Christ and the spiritual geniuses of all the enduring great religious traditions.


For the most part, bravo, my friend. Well put!Smile

William
0 Replies
 
 

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