1
   

*new* mind is more than brain (???)

 
 
richrf
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 09:07 am
@odenskrigare,
odenskrigare;79300 wrote:
Ironically you are being the close-minded one here.


Thanks for the information.

Rich
0 Replies
 
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 09:18 am
@odenskrigare,
No probs, bro, any time
0 Replies
 
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jul, 2009 11:47 pm
@odenskrigare,
Are we done with this thread or did I win an Internet
richrf
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jul, 2009 11:57 pm
@odenskrigare,
Let's face it the mind is a funny thing. I love the Greeks.

Know Thyself.

They definitely were on to something.

Rich
0 Replies
 
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 12:11 am
@odenskrigare,
Well rich I was mulling over how little psychoanalysis has done for advancing technology compared to neuroscience and thinking about how many, perhaps even most of the people opposed to progress don't do anything but complain, ridicule, and deny while the researchers just barrel ahead, when I got an e-mail

It said:

http://i39.tinypic.com/11lu5qr.jpg

Sweet

Indeed, my field is all about knowing thyself...

Pentagon to Merge Next-Gen Binoculars With Soldiers' Brains

In this case, it's: "Know thy visual cortex, for thy prefrontal cortex may lead thee astray"
Zetetic11235
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 05:38 pm
@odenskrigare,
You know, it is the case that your(oden) solution is not the best. Have you seen this? Area 51 Labs Blog Archive Mice Regrow Organs

An odd breed of mice can regenerate at amazing rates. There is another article on this breed of mice where they talk about severing limbs only to have them regrow. Regeneration could make many aspects of this topic obsolete.
0 Replies
 
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 10:07 pm
@odenskrigare,
Well I'd be happy to be shown that I'm wrong

Although I would point out that regeneration is only one kind of improvement
Zetetic11235
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 10:13 pm
@odenskrigare,
I agree, of course, but it seems to indicate that artificial brains may not really be necessary for indefinite lifespan. It certainly gets around the problem of consciousness in that respect. As far as creating other artificial life goes, it doesn't do much. Nor does it improve aspects of the brain which could be considered suboptimal.
0 Replies
 
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 10:22 pm
@odenskrigare,
Immortality could be very boring
0 Replies
 
CMJL
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 10:24 pm
@odenskrigare,
To recap, is the question simply "Can AI be considered life? Presuming it reaches some degree of sophistication that matches our definitions of intelligence and consciousness. That is like saying the TV is becoming real. The technology behind movies is certainly getting more advanced, and can be entertaining, but is is more 'real'? More interactive, more colourful, more sensory stimulus - but something is missing from all the wires and cables. I guess I believe that invisible, heatless fire breathing dragons exist. Not sure where that leaves me yet ... Oden - Thanks for the dragon in my garage!! I did always want a dragon. LOL
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 10:34 pm
@CMJL,
CMJL;80631 wrote:
To recap, is the question simply "Can AI be considered life? Presuming it reaches some degree of sophistication that matches our definitions of intelligence and consciousness. That is like saying the TV is becoming real. The technology behind movies is certainly getting more advanced, and can be entertaining, but is is more 'real'?


Ho!

Ho!

Logical Fallacy: Weak Analogy

CMJL;80631 wrote:
More interactive, more colourful, more sensory stimulus - but something is missing from all the wires and cables.


What?

[indent]"Show me something."
"Like what?"
"Like anything!"
"We're not computers, Sebastian. We're physical."[/indent]
CMJL
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 10:59 pm
@odenskrigare,
Hey thanks for replying Oden. BTW I wasn't trying to be insulting and apologize if that is how my comment came off. I was stating truthfully that I now have an 'invisible dragon my garage' ... the belief that consciousness is more than the sum of the brain parts and neurological functions. If I could prove that then the dragon would be visible.

Of course, the TV thing may be a weak analogy, but the science argument leads to the "Quote mines"

Your questioning is parphrased in my mind as "Does it matter if they (AI and biological life) are (nearly) identical in every respect?" I still want to say "Yes it matters" but I cannot prove why or how - just this very deep "No they are not the same." Is that me trying to protect my 'superior' status as a human being on the 'top' of the food chain? Or is this another form of knowing that leads to a fundamental truth? ...

I am not sure if this is something that escapes rational explainations. Or if the 'proofs' are simply not sufficiently developed yet. ??Wondering?? From the posts, I see arguments on both sides. No one is persuading me of either 'truth' so far. Invisible dragon.
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 11:20 pm
@CMJL,
CMJL;80636 wrote:
Your questioning is parphrased in my mind as "Does it matter if they (AI and biological life) are (nearly) identical in every respect?" I still want to say "Yes it matters" but I cannot prove why or how


Imagine hearing this from a mathematician:

"Hey I can't prove that De Morgan's Laws are invalid! I just know!"

Or hearing this from a physicist:

"Hey I can't prove that Bell's theorem isn't true! I just know!"

Sorry, that doesn't cut it for me. You'll have to do better than that.
0 Replies
 
CMJL
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Aug, 2009 12:26 am
@odenskrigare,
No for a scientist this response is ludicrous. However, the process of measuring all the evidence, including experience, is part of the process. Right now I am at the Anthropological level. What are the 'natives' trying to tell me? This belief in folk wisdom is what has led to many pharmacological discoveries. Digitalis, etc. But they started off with the "What if the 'natives' are telling me something true?"

My job now is to test and test and test to find out what it is. To me, I see strength in your arguments due to the intriguing hypothesis it contains. Yet, I do not see any scientific facts that confirm your supposition that AI could be equivalent to conscious life. This requires the working of the definition of consciousness ... which I need to further educate myself in order to properly participate in the discussion.

The self perpetuating concept makes me thing of ameobas, not consciousness. I will visit again some other time once I clarify my thoughts on consciousness.

Thanks for the chat Oden. Hope to see you around.
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Aug, 2009 01:23 am
@CMJL,
CMJL;80645 wrote:
This belief in folk wisdom is what has led to many pharmacological discoveries.


Herbal medicine ... that got tested and the stuff that worked is now called "medicine"

The rest is potpourri and a bowl of soup

CMJL;80645 wrote:
Yet, I do not see any scientific facts that confirm your supposition that AI could be equivalent to conscious life.


Except for current knowledge in physics, chemistry, evolutionary biology, molecular biology, molecular biology, embryology, immunology and neuroscience, modern scientists are secretly in favor of a Platonic or Cartesian view of the mind-body problem, just unwilling to admit it to themselves
0 Replies
 
 

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